posted
I do not consider Saratoga's escape pod and escape pod, it's more of a life boat. escape pod should not hold more than 5 people.
as for the endeavor i do not believe it was at wolf 359. do most of you believe that all one on one confrontations with a borg cube in the vastness of federation space, the borg cube encounters the enterprise. i believe that in the time frame between w359 and first contact, the borg has "probed and proded" the federation. and the endeavour must have been sent out to confront them.
didn't janeway quote aminsov on that particular episode. why would one quote a rescue ship captain on the behavior of the borg. Normally a retrospect quote on the behavior of the enemy has been quoted from a person of great importance and intellegence, a little over qualified for a rescue ship capt..
posted
I've always liked the idea that the survivors were picked up by a handful of civilian vessels that had been unable to escape the system before the Borg arrived. The Borg seem unlikely to attack a few unthreatening ships if they don't want to assimilate them. Of course, I don't remember how much time there was between Starfleet's deciding to make a stand at Wolf 359 and the battle itself. The time would have to be short for any ships to be caught there, I imagine.
Also, Wolf 359 is in the heart of the Federation, more or less. I'm sure there were at least a few ships in the surrounding area that could make a quick dash over to pick up escape pods and be gone before the Enterprise arrived.
------------------ "You are stupid and evil and do not know you are stupid and evil." -- Gene Ray, Cubic
posted
Sorry to stray back to the wolf 359 deal, but I doubt there were ships hanging out near wolf 359, why didn't they come and lend a hand? The admiral said that 40 was all they could muster I think. So I'm sure they called all the ships near the system to help. And if I saw the borg fighting it up with the fed fleet, I think I would head out of there as fast as I could. And if they couldn't leave the system by the time the borg came there, then they couldn't have left by the time the Ent came, let alone be out of sensor range. I prefer the theory that the one surviving ship took all the escape pods.
Registered: Feb 2000
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posted
I'm not saying they were just hanging around. And they wouldn't have joined the battle because they weren't Starfleet vessels. Just ships that, for one reason or another, couldn't get away in time. Maybe somebody dropped their favored copy of "The Lifecycles of Dorovian Midnight Beetles" and didn't find it until the Borg had arrived. At that point, it might make more sense to power down and hide than to warp away and leave a bright trail.
Regardless, I never meant to imply that the idea was all that logical or necessary. Just that I like it.
------------------ "You are stupid and evil and do not know you are stupid and evil." -- Gene Ray, Cubic
posted
This sort of takes us to the question "Why Wolf 359"?
My impression was that the system was uninhabited, perhaps even devoid of planets. There would certainly have been some concern by the E-D crew over the fate of the local inhabitants, had there been any. I doubt any civilian starships would have been in the vicinity.
Why did the Cube come to Wolf 359? Why not go around the system? Presumably because the Cube wanted to battle Starfleet in order to assimilate its tactics and weapons.
But why did Starfleet go to Wolf 359? What reason did they have to think that the Cube would stop there? Or fly through that system so that it could be forced to stop? What was special about Wolf 359? AFAIK, it doesn't lie in the direction of Delta quadrant, but more like "northeast" from Earth. Was Jouret IV exactly in that direction (which is usually the direction given for the Romulan Star Empire, as in the DS9 Tech Manual map)? Was Wolf 359 by an incredibel coincidence smack in the middle of the most direct route from Jouret IV to Earth?
(And PopMaze: Why would you say there was only one escape pod? We saw two others fly by as we watched the Saratoga explode. While those may not have been from the Saratoga due to the flightpaths, I'm sure the Saratoga would have launched several pods as well. Sisko probably simply stayed so long with his dead wife that he boarded the very last pod out of the Saratoga.)
posted
Actually, the delta quadrant would be "northeast" of Earth. I think W359 is more like "southeast". Or at least south-something; whatever it is, it's on the other side of Earth from the DQ.
Personally, I'm guessing that the Borg were using something like the transwarp conduits, but they accidentally missed and ended up on the other side of us. They had to turn around and go through W359 to get to Earth. Either that, or the cube that came to Earth just happened to have previously been on the opposite side from the DQ. When the Borg decided to attack, that cube was closest, so they sent it.
------------------ Jackson: "Basically, he was the original Satan." O'Neill: "Well, isn't that special?" -Stargate SG-1: "Serpent's Song"
posted
It's also possible that the Borg were taking a somewhat random path around the Federation in order to test their defenses, probe their reactions, and assess the accuracy of the data derived from Locutus.
------------------ "You are stupid and evil and do not know you are stupid and evil." -- Gene Ray, Cubic
posted
But the admiral said they would meet them there with and hit them with everything they got. Or something like that. So they knew they were going to go through there. A random path wouldn't allow that. Maybe when the Enterprise ran in the beging of BoBW they went way out of the way knowing that it would buy the fleet more time and it would give them a convienent place to meet them. Or maybe they were just close to Wolf 359 and for convience sake they said they were there.
Registered: Feb 2000
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posted
I didn't mean to imply that the Borg wound up at Wolf 359 randomly. I was attempting to explain why the Borg might have found themselves in the position where a straightline course to Earth would take them through the system.
------------------ "You are stupid and evil and do not know you are stupid and evil." -- Gene Ray, Cubic
posted
Yes, "southeast", damnit, "southeast". I made a stupid typo. "Northeast" would be exactly where Voyager is coming from. Wolf 359 is more in the direction of the "southern" tip of the Romulan Star Empire as portrayed in the DS9 TM map. "East-southeast" might be the most accurate expression.
I think I like best TSN's idea that the Collective just dialed up the most suitable Cube already in the region, instead of sending one all the way from Delta quadrant. There could easily be unexplored space "east-southeast", especially beyond Romulan space, with Cubes teeming around unbeknownst to the Feds. Who knows, perhaps there might even be a big Borg-assimilated planet there, and this planet is sending all the Cubes that have attacked Earth or scouted around the RNZ.
Even the later "Sector 001 attack" of ST:FC (which this thread is about ) need not necessarily have come from the direction of the Delta quadrant at all. All we know is that the Cube passed Typhon sector, which in turn was "relatively close" to the RNZ. It's all incredibly vague.
1. - The Borg wanted to avoid crossing Romulan and Klingon Space... so went around them to come at Earth from the "south"
2. System J25 was beyond the direction of Wolf 359 - and that ship was INDEED the ship they had encountered previously... so ever since its encounter with the E at J25 its been making a Bee-line to Earth.
We never found out where J25 was (cause they hadn't invented the quadrant sys yet) we only know that it took a damn long time to get back to Federation space...
------------------ "Who wouldn't be the one you love Who wouldn't stand inside your love." - Stand Inside Your Love, The Smashing Pumpkins
posted
Quadrants as we now know then first appeared in TNG "The Price", which predates "BoBW" but not "Q Who?". But by the internal chronology of the Trek universe, they were already in use during ST6:TUC. There is no specific reason to assume that they weren't adopted in 2161 already, with the founding of the Federation - or even earlier than that.
In any case, J-25 cannot be in Delta. It was mere 7,000 ly away from the Federation, and the nearest point of Delta (namely, the galactic center) is 24,000 ly away from Earth. Are we really to believe that the Federation extends as much as 14,000 ly from Earth towards the Delta quadrant? Even the Encyclopedia doesn't make such an outrageous claim. J-25 can easily be in Beta, though.
* * * *
If the Cube met by the E-D at J-25 really was the same that hit Earth in "BoBW", then there's an oddity. Starfleet was surprised by how the attack came earlier than thought (they were obviously thinking that the Cube in "Q Who?" was the nearest to Earth), yet it was obvious that the Cube that performed the attack was not faster than the E-D at all. To the contrary, Riker caught up with it rather easily. If the Cube had a better drive for long-distance travel, why didn't it use that drive on the final leg of its journey?
Earlier, we could speculate that the long-distance drive wouldn't work at short distances. But now we know that transwarp conduits can be erected anywhere, and there is no need to e.g. establish them at both ends before use.
So now there are two choices. Either the Borg at that time did not have transwarp (at least not aboard that specific Cube), or they for some reason volunteered not to use it. The latter seems like the less implausible explanation of the two - but why, oh why would the Borg volunteer that way?