Here's an old pseries of psots of mine on the subject, plus some fleet figures of mine:A collection of various posts from another board on the subject of starships.
His numbers got me to thinking about past ST non-fiction books that included rough figures on starfleet strength. Its very difficult to determine what they actually are today because the writers will never pin it down, and the original concept of Starfleet as a small quasi-military entity has changed into a huge warfleet equipped military organization. But here are some comparisons:
As I see it, the main sources of fleet composition and strength both semi-official and fan developed are the the Franz Joseph tech manual, and its related manuals developed by others (Starship Design, Fed Reference Series, related SPO books); The FASA manuals; and Starship Dynamics.
The other modern sources are the shows themselves and the new official manuals. You can get a feel from these various sources of what the fleet is supposed to be composed of, but its obvious that, while larger than originally conceived, it is much smaller than it is in DS9's time.
The Fed Reference Series suggests the fleet is organized into Service Force(auxiliaries), Type Organization (subdivision of fleet into ships of same type), Unit(Two or more squadrons of light starships), Squadron(Two or more divisions of same type), Division (basic unit of fleet starships-two or more ships of same type), Task Group, Task Element, Task Unit (sundivisions of Task Force), Task Force(any force organized to accomplish a special task), Force(Major subdivision of fleet), Fleet (Organization of all spacecraft under one commander and shall comprise of ALL types of craft necessary for major operations. This seems pretty logical, and in fact we see many of the same terms used today, so note that a fleet should include all types of craft.
The Fed Ref Series uses these ship classifications:
1. Class One Starship of the Line (anachronistic term even in the late 20th century)
A. Mk 1 Corsair
B. Mk II Clipper
C. Mk III Light Cruiser
D. Mk IV Cruiser
E. Mk V Frigate
F. Mk VI Transport/Tug
G. Mk VII Scout
H. Mk VIII Destroyer
I. Mk IX Heavy Crusier
J. Mk X Heavy Destroyer
K. Mk XI Battlecruiser
L. Mk XII Heavy Destroyer
M. Mk XIII Battlecruiser
N. Mk XIV Corvette
O. Mk XV Through-deck Cruiser
P. Mk XVI Shuttlecarrier
Q. Mk XVII Space Control Ship
R. Mk XVIII Superscout
S. Mk XIX Fast Frigate
T. Mk XX Strike Cruiser
U. Mk XXI Command Ship
It further names Class Two ships as support craft; and class Three ships as small spacecraft.
They number:
36 Saladin
13 Achernar
12 Federation
22 Renner
26 Knox Class
22 Avenger Class
3 Menhaga
7 Mitannic
28 Belknap
8 Enterprise
10 Asencion
9 Federation(uprated)
514 Independence Class Transports
306 Sherman Class Transports
15 Ptolemy Class
In addition, the related SPO book "Starship Design" suggests 362 ships of ALL types are constructed over a 5 year period, Of which 46 are cruisers and above. The total here is 1031. This doesn't include all possible ships, but major classes. I suspect they felt it was the bulk of the fleet.
One thing of interest here is that the total of auxiliaries is higher than the major combatants. If Monty is off on any figures, its probably his ratio of auxiliaries to warships. In todays navy, only 1/6th of the ships at the time of the largest US fleet in recent times were warships. Perhaps new technologies and replicators would reduce that number of support vessels, but it might still well be half of the fleet. So Monty's 156 transports seems like a small number.
Starfleet Dynamics puts the fleet size at 3137, of which only 937 are major combatants.
The STNG FASA manual:
38 Excelsiors
50 Enterprise
126 Constellation
240 Decker Class
12 Royal Sovereign Class
13 M'Benga Hospital Ships
17 Sagan Class Science Vessels
33 Wellington Class
25 Paine Class
22 Moscow Class
15 Ambassadors
2 Galaxy Class
3945 Shuttles
1500 Long Range Shuttles
That's 593 major ships.
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The official ST universe today has many official classes and types, of which Monty names just about all. There is no set number, yet if we assume as many fleets as numbers (I believe 9 is still the highest?), then we multiply it by the 600+ of Sisko's fleet, we have at least 5400, though the composition is uncertain. Are they all warships? To sustain a war with the Dominion, a power which summoned over 2000 ships for an invasion, Starfleet must come somewhere near them in total numbers, though not over(add to that allied fleets of course). Monty's overall numbers may indeed underestimate the entire force as shown on the screen today.
A rough estimate of Starfleet ships:
Possibly 15 to 20,000, of which 10 to 12,500 are major combatants. This fits in nicely with Monty's estimate if he was not counting total auxiliaries.
Some basic class type ideas:
EXP-Explorer
CR-Cruiser
CRS-Strike Cruiser
FRG-Frigate
ESC-Escort
SCT-Scout
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(Notes on the listings:
After each class the brackets contain ship type - listed at the bottom - and registry of class==========================Monty's SHIPS OF THE STARFLEET as of Stardate 50902.1================================
TOTAL ACTIVE SHIPS...........12,506
"CLASS ONE" SHIPS............11,634
EXPLORERS
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Galaxy (XL 70637)................44 (Yes, I know - that's a lot more than six!)
Sovereign (XL 75089)..............4
Nebula (XM 60122)................93
Rigel (XM 62081)................157
CRUISERS
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Ambassador (CX 10521)...........239
Excelsior (CH 2000).............704
Renaissance (CS 12433)..........268
Andromeda (CD 60728)............104
Promethius (CS 59660).............1
FRIGATES
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New Orleans (FH 56201)..........301
Akira (FF 63546).................69
Miranda(FR 1800)...............2106
Centaur (FP 21000).............1563
Freedom (FP 51000).............1002
Norway (FR 46103)..............1379
Yeager (FH 73501)................50
Challenger (FD 57530)...........497
ESCORTS
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Defiant (EH 74205)...............43
Steamrunner (EH 52130)..........709
Springfield (EC 30302).........1081
Cheyenne (ET 60991).............634
Rapier (ET 74027)................49 (Included because I like it! Regisrty probly wrong)
SCOUTS
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Intrepid (SS 74655)..............35 (Of which one is in the Delta Quad, of course!)
Constellation (ST 1974)..........35
Korolev (ST 59620)...............58
Sequoia (SS 70070)...............36
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Around the world different navies have different classifications, the Russians call their guided missle cruisers (CGN, CG in the US navy--named by propulsion, not size) "rocket cruisers". In addition the sizes of classifications overlap..any ship that is considered a cruiser is usually 6,000 or more tons, yet the British have no designated cruiser, though their Suffren and Bristol classes fit. They also tend to call cruisers and destroyer size ships "escorts" because they escort their small carriers. US navy destroyers are gigantic (8,000-10,000 tons)compared to most navies cruisers, but they are called destroyers all the same. Frigates used to be less than 2,000 tons and destroyers 2,000-6,000, but the Russian Kynda class(5,500+tons) is desginated a cruiser, and their Udaloys (8,000+) are called destroyers..go figure. Navies also tend to re-designate ships at will..the Virginia class CGNs were called FRIGATES, despite their 10,000 ton plus size, because the were designed to provide air defence for carriers only, but they are now called cruisers. One more note..in WWII, large cruisers with stripped down armor for fast speed, but the same armament were called battlecruisers, today there is no such classification, but the massive and powerful Russian cruisers of the Kirov class certainly do fit that description. So you see, even now the designations do not make much sense.
The Mirandas were always called cruisers since STII, and Starfleet would not need to change that, though they could. Lets call them frigates.
I love the explorer designation, it is fitting that the 24th century should have its own classifications, and it fits nicely with Roddenberry's original concept.
Nebula is very large, I think it could be called an explorer/cruiser easily.
Excelsior..I think they've gone overboard with multiple cruiser designations, as have you. Today no distinctions are made within cruiser classes in designation, though for description, it is a different story. I think strike cruiser and cruiser are fine for Starfleets purposes, and Excelsior is probably a cruiser.
Defiant: Escort, doesn't matter what kind.
Akira: I do not like the term destroyer for Starfleet ships, and that is never used. It is a cruiser.
Miranda: As I pointed out, could be called a cruiser by tradition, but it is a frigate in the 24th century.
Norway: Frigate seems to fit.
Same with the Saber class though escort may be more proper.
Inrepid/Constitution class variant: Yes, ugly as Hell. I'm not sure I care what class this is in.
Excelsior variant: Cruiser fits nicely. Heavy cruiser if you want to get technical.
Some more thoughts..Defiant could be called a FAC or "fast attack craft".
Here's an idea I like, along with Explorers, a new class could be developed altogether..one to replace the destroyer designation between frigate and cruiser...
Perimeter action ship is a new one, but I prefer something less combative, pehaps corvettes, but how about "venturers", "strikers", "starraker", "lancers"..Ok, they're not less combative, but they are different..
See Tom's post on what the Starfleet designations are, they are very reasonable. Here are some of my own and a modern comparison.
In todays US navy the major surface combatants are:
Frigate- Usually below 4,000 tons and less than 400 ft. Mainly anti-submarine warfare craft with minor anti-air capability. Designed for escort duty or short range patrol. Small and fast.
Destroyer- Usually 4,000 to 10,000 tons and less than 600 ft (Below 6,000 tons in most navies) Designed for ASW patrol, secondary AA capability and also to escort carriers.
Cruiser- Usually 10,000 plus tons and 500+ ft. Russian Kirovs are 38,000 tons, USS Long Beach is 17,000. Usually are most powerful ships in most navies, they are todays captial ships along with carriers. Most cruisers have anit-air warfare as their main mission in escorting carriers.
Battleships- All retired now, but they were usually over 40,000+ tons and 700+ feet long. Main mission was to engage other surface ships and bombard shore defenses.
Carriers- Carry aircraft to distant locations to project power. US fleet carriers are 1,000 ft + in length and 75,000 tons to 100,000. British carriers number 3 small carriers and are about 20,000 tons and 700 ft or so.
The Starfleet equivalents to the above(rough estimates):
Escorts(from DS9 manual): Less than 600,000mt and less than 300 meters in length. Fast and maneuverable.
Frigates: Small ships of about 200 to 350(656 to 1148 ft)meter length, less than 600-750,000 metric tons. Designed as escorts for larger ships and transports. Can conduct limited scientific studies but rarely venture for themselves into deep space. Replace destroyers in ST's universe.
Cruisers: Ships from 300 to 500 meters (about 1640 ft). Multipurpose ships equipped for most contingencies, from evac, to warfare, to exploration.
Light cruisers would be ships in the lower range of length. A difference between them and frigates of similar length might be tonnage or weapons carried. Possibly 700,000 to 1,000,000 metric tons.
Medium Cruisers: 800,000 to 1,500,000mt.
Heavy Cruisers: 1,500,000mt to 2.5 million mt
Explorers: 2 million to 5,000,000mt and 500 meter+ in length. Sovereign is 680 meters (2230 ft).
A list of all navy designations:
The United States Navy
The Navy Fact File
Contents
Last updated: 8 Oct. 1998
Submarines
Attack Submarines- SSN
Ballistic Missile Submarines - SSBN
Deep Submergence Craft - NR-1
Deep Submergence Rescue Vehicle - DSRV
Research Submarine - T-AGS
Surface Ships
USS Constitution - the oldest commissioned ship in the Navy
: Aircraft Carriers CV/CVN
: Ammunition Ships AE
: Amphibious Assault Ships LHA/LHD
: Amphibious Command Ships LCC
: Amphibious Transport Dock LPD
: Command Ships AGF
: Cruisers CG/CGN
: Destroyers DD/DDG
: Dock Landing Ships LSD
: Fast Combat Support Ships AOE
: Frigates FFG
: Fleet Oilers AO
: Landing Craft, Air Cushioned LCAC
: Landing Craft, Mechanized and Utility LCM, LCU
: Mark V Special Operations Craft
: Minehunter, Coastal MHC
: Mine Countermeasures Ship MCM
: Mine Countermeasures Ship MCS
: Patrol Coastal PC
: Rescue and Salvage Ships ARS
: Sea Shadow Experimental ship
: Submarine Tender AS
: Tank Landing Ships LST
: Military Sealift Command
: The Military Sealift Command operates more than 110 ships around the world. These ships carry the designation "USNS" (United States Naval Ships) and are not commissioned ships. Also, they are crewed by civilians. Some MSC ships also have small military departments assigned to carry out specialized military functions such as communications and supply operations. MSC ships carry the prefix "T" before their normal hull numbers.
: Naval Fleet Auxiliary Force (NFAF)
: Ammunition Ships T-AE
: Combat Stores Ships T-AFS
: Hospital Ships T-AH
: Underway Replenishment Oilers T-AO
: Ocean-going Tugboats T-ATF
: Special Missions Ships
: Acoustic Research Ship T-AG
: Cable Repair Ship T-ARC
: Counter-drug/Surveillance Ships T-AGOS
: Missile Range Instrumentation Ships T-AGM
: Navigation Research/Missile Range Instrumentation Ship T-AG
: Ocean Surveillance Ships T-AGOS
: Survey Ships T-AGS
: Prepositioning Program
: Container, Flo-Flo, Dry Cargo Carriers, LASH, Roll-on/Roll-off Ships T-AK
: Large, Medium-speed Roll-on/Roll-off Ships T-AKR
: Prepo Tankers T-AOT
:
: Maritime Prepositioning Program
: Aviation Logistic Ships T-AVB
: Crane T-ACS
: Maritime Prepositioning, Roll-on/Roll-off Ships T-AK
:
: Sealift Force
: Fast Sealift Ships T-AKR
: Large, Medium-speed Roll-on/Roll-off Ships T-AKR
: Tankers T-AOT
:
: Ready Reserve Force
: Auxiliary Crane Ships T-ACS
: Break Bulk/LASH Ships T-AK
: Heavy lift / Roll-on/Roll-off Ships T-AKR
: Product Tankers T-AOT
: Troop Ships T-AP
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Most ships are still multipurpose, but this has changed to with DS9 and the ongoing Dominion war, where some classes are dedicated military vessels. The same classifications we have now could well mean other things in the 24th century, hence the general terms such as cruiser and explorer..and I actually prefer these.
I like your system, its simple and makes sense and does take into account different missions of the 24th century, since those platforms are more multipurpose than 20th century ships.
"OK. I think Explorer just means "big ship", the equivalent of battleship but not so violent-sounding. Because they're so big and comfortable, they Explore, but like all of Starfleet's ships they have a very multipurpose role. They are generally the most powerful starships out there, so from now on replace "Battleship" with Explorer."
It means more than "big ship", it is technology unchained..a multipurpose vessel that has heavy armament, but has been mainly used for exploration becuause of its huge interior space and scientific labs/sensors. It can replace battleship or dreadnoguht, which I have also seen used unofficially.
"Cruisers are smaller ships than Explorers that stick to the inner Federation. Remember DeSoto's line about the Hood in Tin Man... going back and forth between starbase all day long. In terms of size, there tends to be a bit of overlap with the smaller Explorers, so Heavy Cruisers are generally bigger than Light Explorers. Miranda are Cruisers as they are primary.."
Cruisers are a large part of the fleet and they have to be large enough to sustain themselves over a long period of time. They should be quite capable of supporting explorer ships in any mission they encounter, and we can see that cruisers like the Consittuition were well capable of exploring deep space on their own as well, so I'd like to expand your excellent definition of cruisers.
"There is no Destroyer classification in the 24th century. It sounds far too nasty and as Baloo points out, it's become nearly synonymous with Frigate even today."
I agree about the nastiness, but frigates and destroyers are not interchangable today. While destroyers still have the ASW mission they also have a major anti-air capability, and frigates are not very good for this. Compare the Aegis Arleigh Burke with the Oliver Hazard Perry, and you'll see what I mean. Both of these types of ships are escorts in major fleets though, and that is what you may be thinking. ALSO, the term frigates resurfaced after many years in WWII as a major class of ship because of the escort role it performed. Most minor navies use this as their major type of warship today and it has gained a new respect. Like Starfleet ships, they are often built from modular components built at other nation's naval yards.
I don't feel frigates can overlap with light cruisers in overall capability.
I also don't think Intrepids are scouts, after all they are larger than Constitution class ships. You might consider them frigates..
I like strike cruiser as a classification.
We have seen cruisers, heavy cruisers, frigates, explorers, in the series. No destroyers or carriers in Starfleet.
In the US Navy, the Oliver Hazard Perry frigates are about 3,500 tons, and are much smaller than the Spruance and Arleigh Burke classes (8,000+tons each). In WWII, they tended to be much smaller even than that, but they were always smaller than destroyers.
RAMA
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