Shik
Starship database: completed; History of Starfleet: done; website: probably never
Member # 343
posted
It's an ensign thing. To build camraderie on a larger vessel. Smaller ships like Intrepids would have no need for that. It's like going to a small community college versus Penn State or Auburn, meeting your entire freshman class in 15 minutes versus being ranked 432nd out of 1300.
------------------ "Reading snow is like listening to music. To describe what you've read is like explaining music in writing." ---Smilla Jaspersen
posted
IIRC the TNG-TM states that "a huge amount of interior space" aboard Galaxy class ships is empty. I mean, there are obviously whole decks that are left empty say for emergencies etc. That might be one reason why (junior) officers and the like share quarters, although the ship could easily be outfitted so that everyone could have his/her own room+extra space.
I think it was also mentioned that the Ent-D could carry up to 11.000!! people during rescue missions. Given the normal crew complement of ~1000 there would be plenty of extra space. (Even if the ship would be cramped like a tin of sardines with 11.000 onboard!)
------------------ RIMMER [as Ace]: "Stoke me a clipper, I'll be back for Christmas."
posted
Nebulas may *look* like they'd be all fancy-schmancy Galaxy-ish on the inside, but everything we've seen of them suggests the contrary. The one bridge set we've seen ("Second Sight") is a relatively primitive redress of the E-A/Excelsior bridge. The Battle Bridge ("Redemption") was equally as unsophisticated. The corridors we've seen ("Waltz") is a redress of the Defiant's hallways, and the brig from the same episode was taken from Voyager. Finally, the only quarters we've seen (also "Second Sight") were made from pieces of the Runabout set!
In fact, the only notable comfort we've seen is the Nebula ready room, with its nice desk and comfy sofa. If you look through the door, you can also see a potted plant, apparently sitting on the bridge!
Anyway, the Nebbies are apparently more "utility" kinds of starships, and their patchwork-looking sets are testament to it. All this only points to how much *cooler* the Galaxy class is over everyone else.
The Nebula doubtless would have room for families, but the comfort level is certainly questionable. I've suggested before that the patchwork thing is a result of the inner-modularity of the class - that lack of windows on significant portions of the primary hull would mean that there'd be lots of swappable, mission-specific rooms and such stuffed under there. This goes well with the "utility" description.
Well, the "new" Nebulas we saw towards the end of DS9 could be *nice* Nebulas on the inside...
And while I'm at it, there's no reason Excelsiors and Mirandas and Oberths can't carry famlies (and be refitted to that extent, as the Saratoga must have been - look at the Sisko's quarters windows). After all, they started off carrying crew counts in the hundreds, and from various TNG episodes we know that ships of the early times carry much smaller operational crews in the current times (The Lantree had 26 crew; Brattain, 34, Tsilkovsky, 80; Yellowstone, , etc.). There's plenty of room. Remember, 5000 people are squished into your average supercarrier!
Mark
------------------ "Why build one, when you can build two at twice the price?"
- Carl Sagan, "Contact"
[This message has been edited by Mark Nguyen (edited January 18, 2001).]
posted
A potentially related RW reference: I heard the USN and USCG were considering converting old Perry frigates to address USCG shortcomings in the high-endurance cutter department. And one of the main problems was that even after removing all weapons (save perhaps for the amidships gun), the Perry wouldn't have enough internal room! The whole chopper hangar would have to be converted into a stores room and staging area for boarding parties, fitting in proper brigs would be near-impossible, and crew requirements didn't go down much even with the omission of weapons so cabins wouldn't be freed.
So perhaps it wouldn't be trivially easy to house families aboard a 24th century Miranda even if she sailed with 250-300 fewer crew than her predecessors in the 23rd century.
Another related point: constant reconfiguring is probably the norm aboard all starships. That's the easiest way to explain away the fact that Paramount can't afford to give the same sort of internal sets to a ship class in different episodes. Fitting in some families onboard an utilitarian Nebula would probably just involve making X cubic meters of her non-utilitarian. Swap a cabin module here, install a purifier there, redecorate Tactical Analysis into a disco and Signal Processing into a nursery... A layover of a few weeks on a well-equipped starbase, and that's it.
posted
Could well be. But we never ever heard what her job might have been. Apparently, the mirror-universe technohead Jennifer was fundamentally different from the real one, so her profession probably was, too.
We don't really know if it is at all typical for a civilian to HAVE a job in the first place. Perhaps just those who feel they are good in something take that on as a profession, while some disturbed people try to hunt for jobs even though they don't need them, and can't keep them, like Bashir's dad.
But it would make sense for Starfleet to try to make the best possible use of the people it hauls across space. Certainly there could be rules that make it easier for "useful" civilians to come aboard than for "useless" ones. And yes, the rules would be the more relaxed the bigger the ship was.
posted
Well, hey, If Wesley gets to fly the flagship and Jake gets to fix the station with O'Brien even though there must have been countless scads of officers and crewmen who could've done those jobs, I'd saythe possibilities for civilian advancement in Starfleet are pretty much endless.
------------------ "A gathering of Angels appeared above my head. They sang to me this song of hope, and this is what they said..." -Styx
posted
Okay, what about crew quarters on the Galaxy class? It's like being in a 4 star hotel. I bring back my old quote I made a few years ago: "The Galaxy class is a luxury liner." And I'm going to make it even worst: To my opinion it is made for ambassadorial tasks, not for exploring. Why put families on board a ship that goes into unfamiliar and (possibly) hostile territory?
------------------ "That's your plan? Wile E. Coyote would come up with a better plan than that!" - Crighton, Farscape.
posted
Well, space *is* a nasty place. And with human nature being fundamentally different (they're *okay* with the whole exploration bit), there wouldn't be a short line for civilians (and by extension, families) who wouldn't mind a free trip into the unknown. And if it's dangerous on a fast, maneuverable, heavily armed starship, just think how safe those same people would be on an immobile, defenseless planet!
As for the Enterprise-D being a four-star hotel, it's not a surprise. The Galaxy-class was designed to be the ultimate in creature comfort for the crew and the people they meet. It *is* the flagship, after all, and the head of the fleet's diplomatic arm. Wouldn't you wan tto show your best to all the aliens you'd encounter, and all the friendlies you'd want to impress?
Mark
------------------ "Why build one, when you can build two at twice the price?"
posted
And keep in mind the mindset that was going on when TNG was created. Roddenberry was on this all humans are brothers kick. The ship was designed from the very beginning to be this lush human oasis in the middle of space.
You'll note, that with DS9 and Voyager, not only has that mentality disappeared, but the sets, props and even costumes have radically changed to more "realistic" designs.
------------------ "A gathering of Angels appeared above my head. They sang to me this song of hope, and this is what they said..." -Styx
posted
True, but I don't really think that these changes really contradict the atmosphere of early TNG. Times have just changed. One gets the idea that in the utopian naivete of 2364, no one ever though a ship like the Defiant would ever be needed again. However, the universe is still a pretty dangerous place and perhaps the USS Ritz-Carlton with everyone's loved ones aboard wasn't such a good idea after all.
Like many of you, I assume that the practice of carrying families aboard Starfleet vessels was completely abolished during the war (even in areas far away from the front). I just wonder if Starfleet would choose to reinstate the policy during peacetime.
posted
What I wonder is if Starfleet will actually change the whole interieur of the Galaxy class. I can remember someone saying things like a different saucer with a second warp core for more power. Although this is quit possibly a fan idea, I think that it's a great idea.
Personally I think the Galaxy's were at least temporaraly refitted to carry lots of ground troops and other stuff in the Dominion war.
------------------ "That's your plan? Wile E. Coyote would come up with a better plan than that!" - Crighton, Farscape.
posted
You know, I read all that stuff about the TNG:TM saying that there's ton's of empty space on board, but the blueprints made by Rick Sternbach show that every deck has something on it. No empty space. So does the TM mean that there are just a bunch of empty quarters? Or did the blueprints just show how the empty decks would be filled? Hmmmm...
------------------ It doesn't matter if you don't know what you're doing as long as you look good doing it.
posted
I would think they'd almost have to allow families back on ships - especially explorers.
You can't overstate people's wishes to have a normal life even though they are in the "service". I'd think that S Fleet would have a very difficult time getting anyone to sign up for a multi-year mission if they had to leave the spouse and kids at home for 5 years or more. Picard is basically unique on TNG - everybody else seemed to value having a Sig O and eventual family (OK not Worf).
The best model we have for this is the age of sail - most people who had a choice didn't live that lifestyle for more than one 1-5 year voyage. Also East India Company's ships allowed officers to bring family along IIRC - and they may most closely match SF in many ways.
posted
One can think of the TNG Blueprints from Stearnbech as the Enterprise-D's configuration before she was shot down at Veridian III. Maybe during the refit the ship was filled up for a reason. And the blueprints did show some empty spaces on some decks.
------------------ "Oh for fuck's sake, stop your moaning, If you fancy a threesome at this time of night, you can't get start getting choosey about which particular three! -Queer As Folk, UK
Remember, 5000 people are squished into your average supercarrier!
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