posted
I like the Gao Yao, especially the four shuttle bays and the centered warp nacelles... BUT... besides the above comment, I would bet that those big outboard tanks would play havoc with the warp field geometry. Why DOES it have 4 shuttle bays, anyway?
So... Skill: 10, originality: 9, design: 4
-------------------- joH'a' 'oH wIj DevwI' jIH DIchDaq Hutlh pagh (some days it's just not worth chewing through the leather straps in the morning) The Woozle!
Registered: Nov 2002
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posted
Those are'nt shuttlebays: they're sensor pallates. The decals themselves for those parts are scaled down from the 1400th Intrepid decals. Although the Gao Yao is configured like the Miranda, she is not made from one and really shares no parts other than the bridge and lower sensor. THe extra sensors might be there to monitor whatever the ship is transporting and I have an idea for some smaller drone cargo containers that could follow behind at a distance via remote control. nOt attached directly at all but rather a kind od wagontrain of smaller containers that amplify the G.Y's warp field (lower warp as the number of containers increase) with mabye four container drones maximum. It could also account for the nacelle alignment too. I figure the Gao Yao has a small crew of about 35 (ten per shift)and has no use for shuttles as she would'nt be having direct planetary commerce that the transporters could'nt handle.
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
Registered: Aug 2002
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quote:Originally posted by Jason Abbadon: Okay guys! The Gao Yao is my tanker/cargo ship/ antimatter carrier.
I'm wondering why so many folks keep perpetuating the Ptolemy idea of a full-size starship for a transport. I prefer the Jackill's Fisher class for that job. It's the class II saucer (Grissom/Oberth style) with the integrated engines and the neck and connector plate. It hauls two containers, and uses a lot less resources to run cargo. Why use a class I saucer or extended hull that requires a large crew, has more parasitic mass and a full weapons loadout?
As far as I can tell, the only real reason to use a Ptolemy or other such design like that is troop transport or for transport through hostile sectors without available escort.
All that said, your model is well done and I like that you turned expectations on their head by putting the containers outboard of the engines, rather than the reverse used everywhere else. Without engines, that cargo goes nowhere and has no value. Whereas without cargo, that engine still gets the ship around. So for use in hostile areas, it makes more sense to use the cargo to shield the ship, rather than vice-versa. However, why does a cargo ship need four sensor pallets aft? And I think even a cargo ship (perhaps especially a cargo ship) needs at least one shuttle bay, if not two. After all, Miranda's have an internal cargo bay, so why would this ship not have one, despite having the external cargo pods? I'd have a small shuttle bay for crew use and a large one connecting to the internal cargo bay for use transferring freight. Transporters do break down or are inappropriate for some cargos.
-------------------- Darkwing If you don't drink the kool-aid, you're a *baaad* person - Rev Jim Jones It is useless for sheep to pass resolutions in favor of vegetarianism while wolves remain of a different opinion - William Ralph Inge Almond kool-aid, anyone? - DW [email protected]
Registered: May 2002
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posted
Well, nearly forty years of the Star Trek franchise have demonstrated that ships with common saucer designs are the exception rather than the rule. The proliferation of 1-B designs from the movie era seems to stem from the fandom (of the time)'s inability to come up with original designs - kitbashing was the rule. Only when the franchise came up with distinctly different, but canon, saucer designs to play with, did the fandom start to branch out into more original designs.
That said, most people seem to believe that in the 23rd century saucers were mass produced as one design that was somehow ideal for the Fleet's needs. Among them, some conclude that the saucers HAD to be standardized, each coming with deck upon deck of the same crew quarters, science labs, and storage decks. There was even one fandom book which said that lots of the same-looking design prototypes were constructed by using mothballed Ptolemy class tugs, upgraded accordingly because they had basically not been used except as a transport.
However, there's no reason not to believe that the saucers couldn't be modified internally. We see in TNG that Miranda-class ships are subclassed for any number of missions, from science vessel to transport to general combatant; fandom generally accepts that these ships, with their varying quoted crew counts and missions, would be modified internally to suit that. Jason's tug design here could have been built, or modified, for a minimal crew but a maximum internal cargo space before counting the pods - think of it like those big moving trucks with the smaller container mounted on the rig.
posted
The Miranda (if used for freight) has been shown to have a crew of as little as 26 (as per TNG)and I wanted a ship thatwas not a miranda clone but still in the same general design ethic. I lookied at making the parts where the sensor pallates are but I discarded it because it would make the ship too miranda-ish and I wanted something more unique. The sensor pallates could double as tractor beam emmiters if you prefer- to haul cargo containers.
I think this class of ship could easily transport exotic starship components from place to place or mabye even pre-fabricated colony equipment (industrial replicators and the like).
A bit about the model: I started with a smooyth resin casting of a connie saucer and added the rear hull extentions (made from balsa)via CA glue and modeling putty. All the ship's deflectot details are drawn in with pencil and weathered with graphite dust. Decals are made via Adobe Illustrator onto matte decal film. The cargo containers are made from super glue tubes with plastic "bubble eyes" glued on their ends.
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
Registered: Aug 2002
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My belief is that Mirandas in the TNG era would have a regular base crew of around 20, with the rest being taken care of via automation. The additional crew would be stuff like a half dozen cargo specialists (Lantree) or a dozen-plus scientists (Br!ttain).
The Saratoga would likely have 50-100 crew, including civvies, wildly judging by the escape pods. But I still think that the "combat" Mirandas of DS9 would have around 20-50 crew to be on par with the density shown by the similarly-sized Defiant.
Mark
[ June 24, 2003, 01:34 PM: Message edited by: Mark Nguyen ]
posted
If the Gao Yao has a crew of 35 that would allow a operating crew of 10 per shift with five on light or no duty. I can't imagine that a ship could get by with less and still maintain 3-5 people on the bridge at all times (command, conn, ops are a must IMHO) and minimal crew in the rest of the ship.
Miranda's used as destroyers could have crews of 50 (when sciences, security and possibly trainees are included)with 50 civillians.
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
Registered: Aug 2002
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posted
The ECS Fortunate had inward nacelles too, so there is a precedence. Still, according to all we know from the TNGTM it would obstruct the warp field.
Registered: Mar 1999
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quote:I can't imagine that a ship could get by with less and still maintain 3-5 people on the bridge at all times (command, conn, ops are a must IMHO)
Not to argue ...
... I can see on some assignments where the Duty Officer could double at a duty station. In fact, in "Disaster", wasn't the night-shift officer also standing a watch at Ops?
On a small ship, a medical staff wouldn't have to be on duty at all times - it would be easy enough for them to be "on call" for an emergency. Sure it's not the staffing you'd find on a Galaxy-Class, but on a ship with a crew of 30, I can't imagine you'd have more than a doctor and one or two nurses, and it would probably be close to impossible to have someone in sickbay at all times.
posted
...Which casues one to wonder why you'd even need sickbay manned at all times. Without touching on the the LMH thing, odds are you wouldn't. Heck, Voyager seemed to be assigned only one doctor and nurse even before "Caretaker" (not counting the occasional blueshirt technician), and that's for a crew of 140. Anyone know what the medical staff is on USN warships?
posted
I was'nt really counting medical staff: I agree there. I know it's plausable that small, non-combat oriented ships would double up duties but I'd put three on a bridge that large at all times: in a bridge like the connie refit taht would be required. As far as the nacelle thing- that's mostly a FASA design element that i just dig. I have built several ships this way and have to point out that the Constalation, Nebula and Defiant seem to violate the old "warp geometry" rule.
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
Registered: Aug 2002
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quote:Originally posted by Mark Nguyen: ...Anyone know what the medical staff is on USN warships?
Mark
I've asked a similar med staffing question to a USN officer (and SF Museum visitor) aboard USS Bataan (an amphibious assault ship).
Q: Do all ships have medical doctors aboard? If not, how large does a crew have to be before it is assigned a doctor? On ships with large crews, what is the approximate ratio of crewmen to doctors?
A: Right now I have 2 doctors and a Dentist to treat a crew of 1100 or so. On a Cruiser, they have one doctor to about 400 crew members. The Docs, though, will have Hospital Corpsmen to assist them in screening and treating patients. On BATAAN, I have the fourth largest hospital in the state of Virginia as far as beds are concerned (600), but we do not receive any additional medical personnel until we deploy with a Fleet Surgical Team. The FST has additional surgeons, nurses, and corpsmen to handle any battle field casualties, like we did in Afganistan.
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Registered: Oct 1999
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posted
So few actual doctors are needed but several people with hospital tech-level training are there to assist. On a small ship with a crew less than 50 it's likely that all crewmembers recieve advanced medical training (mabye to a paramedic level) so that everyone can cover in a crisis.
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
Registered: Aug 2002
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More like one or two members of the crew are Medical Corpsmen, which is how I believe the USN staffs submarines. However, since we're talking Starfleet, it's a good bet they're willing to "spend" one doctor on a ship with a very small crew complement.
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