posted
The problem is that the shuttlebay on Red's model is too short. The actual shuttlebay is identical to that of the Ambassador Class and is significantly longer.
I would also point out that the neck is not really as substantial as the mesh portrays.
This is a drawing done by Masaki that correctly portrays a side-view of the ship. The only thing that may be a little off (which Red did get right on his rendering) is that the lower nacelle pylon should be thicker rather than a flat "fin."
-MMoM
-------------------- The flaws we find most objectionable in others are often those we recognize in ourselves.
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posted
Why would the lower nacelle pylon be thicker that the others?
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
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posted
And why would the shuttlebay be identical to that of an Ambassador? Sure, the two came out of the same mold originally - but that was before the hull was extensively reworked (including getting "battle-damaged").
Even in the long version, the shuttlebay seems pretty idiotic, hampered as it is by the proximity of the three pylons (even the TOS Constitution had relatively more clearance, I think). One could more plausibly place some impulse engines there, as the ship lacks them anywhere else...
A lot of the "real" appearance of the Niagara class remains conjectural, since we wouldn't even know if a fourth nacelle was blown away.
posted
Actually, the Niagra's shuttlebay matching the Ambassador yields a LOT more clearance from the nacelles than the Connie Refit: It just looks like less becaue everything is scaled waaay up.
The Impulse engines are directly behind (and flush with) the saucer. Shadows obstruct them onscreen and we never see the studio model from the rear. Besides, if you group all your ship's engines in one small space at the back of the ship, you'll make a tempting target for one good torpedo hit! ...and the ship would have no shuttlebay at all if the impulse engine was waaay back there. Soundeffect and I have debated this on many occasion for the sake of building our model versions of this odd ship and I think it's the only answer.
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
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Still, a torpedo in your shuttlebay is a good way to ruin a perfectly nice day. Both in the Niagara and in the Connie-refit; just put a delay fuze on the thing so that the outer bay doors don't detonate it yet, and the next solid object it will hit is the warp core (or at least a primary plasma conduit)!
Perhaps starships are supposed to out-accelerate torpedoes fired from their six, and thus traditionally have weak and almost undefended derrieres?
posted
HaHAHAHAH!! I've always wondered why Chang didint just pop a couple of torpedos in through those thin shuttlebay doors! Or the Impulse Engines!
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
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posted
The reason the neck is more substantial than one would immediately speculate looking at the model photos is that it is where I inserted the impulse engines. They have to be somewhere, and eliminating most other areas from the photos we have this seemed the logical location.
I don't know what that bottom pylon should look like, it's a weird structure, but I modelled it as best I could according to the one helpful angle we have in one of the photos. And according to that same picture the Niagara doesn't seem to have a shuttle bay at all! It has either been entirely blown away in combat or this area is quite different to the aft quarters of an Ambassador.
MinutiaeMan, starship categories and hardware types is indeed interesting. I must point out that regarding the combat terms the Destryer is at the top of this tree, above Escorts and Frigates. There's a full run down here with explanations and theories: http://www.trekmania.net/the_fleet/utopia/ship_designations.htm
-------------------- "To the Enterprise and the Stargazer. Old girlfriends we'll never meet again." - Scotty
quote:Originally posted by Timo: And why would the shuttlebay be identical to that of an Ambassador? Sure, the two came out of the same mold originally - but that was before the hull was extensively reworked (including getting "battle-damaged").
As Jason already pointed out, it's so the shuttlebay is clear of the nacelle pylons. Besides, what do you think Jein did? Remodel the aft end before burning it to shit? I would doubt that...
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quote: As Jason already pointed out, it's so the shuttlebay is clear of the nacelle pylons. Besides, what do you think Jein did? Remodel the aft end before burning it to shit? I would doubt that...
Exactly. But that's why we don't know how the aft end of the undamaged Niagara looks like and may speculate a bit. The question is rather if we would want to see an undamaged version...
-------------------- Bernd Schneider
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posted
I'd have liked to have seen at least one in battle on DS9. With that extra nacelle, she's got to have lots of power for phasers and I DO dig the design. It just kind od grows on you...
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
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I agree that once you get used to the initially ungainly proportions of the ship, it looks kind of neat. It takes a while, but it *does* grow on one...
And Bernd, I understand that there is room for speculation on the shuttlebay, but the point was that the idea of it being shorter than on the Ambassador is decidedly BAD speculation, considering that without that length the pylons screw it up. And it happens to be a bonus that the longer configuration is in fact what the model looked like before being damaged.
-MMoM
-------------------- The flaws we find most objectionable in others are often those we recognize in ourselves.
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quote:Originally posted by Jason Abbadon: Why would the lower nacelle pylon be thicker that the others?
It is particularly apparent in this pic that at least the leading edge of the lower pylon is thick and rounded, rather than flat and angular at the upper ones are.
-------------------- The flaws we find most objectionable in others are often those we recognize in ourselves.
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quote: With that extra nacelle, she's got to have lots of power for phasers
But energy flows to the nacelles, not from them. (Presumably you are postulating that more nacelles = more powerful warp core to make them all work, but I'm not so sure that's justified.)
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Actually, I'm of the opinion that the aintmatter in the warp core is akin to a car's gasoline and that starships with more or more advanced engines are akin to having a V8 in your car instead of a V4.
Either that or the Niagra is built for high speed warp to the federation's borders. The extra nacelle could relieve much of the strain on the other two nacelles, allowing for a longer time at high/ maximum warp compared to a GCS with far less mass to warp as well. It's supposed to take 10 years to cross the federation at warp six (I think it's six anyway)so starfleet would need to constantly build high-warp starships and ship them off to the expanding border to fortify new colonies and explore and get into trouble while killing off new life and new civilizations. Upgrading the older Niagra class from Ambassador nacelles to Galaxy and adding on the third nacelle would have been more expedient than waiting for new galaxy classes to be built. Sound plausable?
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
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posted
quote:Originally posted by Jason Abbadon: aintmatter
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