posted
Fair to say that the next few episodes are probably going to be heavy in the regular/recurring cast body count. Who lives, who dies? Predictions only (I only know one confirmed death, and that person isn't on this list!):
Hot Dog -- Dead Kat -- Survivor Zarek -- Goner Anders -- Bites the farm. Gaeta -- Whacked by the Resistance. Dualla -- *snort* Like they'd kill the only African-Canadian on the show.
posted
I think Jammer has a biggest target painted on the back of his head at the moment, Anders is such an obvious candidate for killing off that they just might keep him around to spite, though not sure exactly what he's going to do once the fleet gets underway again.
I rather think Tom may be the next Vice President under Laura, or more interestingly visa-versa.
posted
Dramatically, I can't see them getting rid of both Gaeta and Jammer for their (ostensible) Collaboration. I can envisage a number of powerful scenarios by which one or the other would come a cropper, but not both. My initial instinct is to say Gaeta will survive, but then. . . what is the point of Gaeta anyway? Apart from jockeying with Dualla for the top of the Probably A Cylon List. My money would be on Jammer to survive through Joining NCP For Good Reasons But Gets In Over Head But Redeems Self By Saving Cally, while Gaeta is toast for Collaborating In Order To Help The Resistance But No-one Knows He's Doing It.
posted
Gaeta - Yep, BSG really loves the tragedy! Jammer - Survives with loads of guilt, and a commemorative black ski mask. Zarek - Way too interesting a character to kill off. Anders - Dead Man Walking.
-------------------- “Those people who think they know everything are a great annoyance to those of us who do.” — Isaac Asimov Star Trek Minutiae | Memory Alpha
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posted
I concur. I like Rev's thinking about the potential next Pres-VP combination. Whoever ends up on top (now THAT'd make for one hell of a Roslin-Zarek dynamic!) Zarek has to be retained.
posted
>>I rather think Tom may be the next Vice President >>under Laura, or more interestingly visa-versa.
I think it would be vice-versa, assuming he survives. He is, after all, with Baltar a traitor and certain to not continue in his role as President after their rescue, the legitimate head of the Colonial government.
posted
*sigh* What's with everyone's incessant need to have everyone paired into some romantic setup? Roslin's character would be severely hobbled by that kind of attachment. I find it much more interesting to have the casual, heartwarming trust and familiarity exhibited with her and (Bill) Adama... like those scenes when he was talking to her as the cancer was running amok.
Also, you just KNOW that Zarek is going to find something else to make trouble about once the fleet hits the road again.
-------------------- “Those people who think they know everything are a great annoyance to those of us who do.” — Isaac Asimov Star Trek Minutiae | Memory Alpha
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posted
I had no need to see everyone pair-bonded. About the only one I wanted to see in a secure relationship was Boomer. But there is a well-documented link between violence and sex, and having one's species nearly exterminated would probably serve to augment the mating drive just a wee bit.
Be that as it may. I'm not trying to foist Zarak and Roslin off on each other, I was just commenting on others' attempts to do so.
--Jonah
-------------------- "That's what I like about these high school girls, I keep getting older, they stay the same age."
--David "Woody" Wooderson, Dazed and Confused
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posted
How much tension has been shown with Roslin and Zarek ? NONE... at least that qualifies as tension that underlies some sexual attraction. I would say that their relationship would be more advesarial at best than anything. He did work for Baltar... I doubt that she can trust him after that.
As for the body count... we'll just have to wait and see who else gets shot/blow up/decompressed to open space/electricuted/knifed/drowned/staked through the heart.
-------------------- "It speaks to some basic human needs: that there is a tomorrow, it's not all going to be over with a big splash and a bomb, that the human race is improving, that we have things to be proud of as humans." -Gene Roddenberry about Star Trek
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posted
I think it's interesting how many people insist on painting Zarek as and out-and-out bad guy. While he has been an antagonist in a couple of storylines I've never taken him as anything other than someone who belives what he's doing is the right think and though his methods aren't always to be condoned I think you can at least appriciate his point of view.
Anyway, rant over.
quote:How much tension has been shown with Roslin and Zarek ? NONE... at least that qualifies as tension that underlies some sexual attraction. I would say that their relationship would be more advesarial at best than anything. He did work for Baltar... I doubt that she can trust him after that.
So he did, he also spent 4 months in a holding cell for refusing to co-operate with the Cylons, so at least he's not a collaborator. So that coupled with the fact that as Snay pointed out he has a legal right so sucession on Baltar is impeched/exiled/whatever happens to him, could quite possibly the reason he may just be the next President of the "Colonies".
Of course Roslin is the obvious choice for vice-pres, but I guess we'll just have to wait and see.
posted
I thought the same thing. Not about Cally being a Cylon, but about the two shots of her escape being completely inconsistent. Not only does the later shot not have her falling down that slope, but she doesn't run through trees, and she's not still running when the gunfire starts.
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posted
Holy frack! What a great season so far. I was literally on the edge of my seat after the last episode.
When I first heard about the allegory betwen BSG and the war in Iraq (well, not a war, but...) I wondered how well it would work. Putting the Colonials in the role of the terrorists, and the Cylons in the role of the US Forces was an interesting idea, but I didn't see it working well because there are NO Cylon civilians.
But the civilian casualties turn out to be the collaborators and some innocent bystanders. Just like real life. When a terrorist bombs a marketplace, he blows up innocent bystanders. Sometimes those bystanders may even be sympathetic to his cause.
It works better than I expected. Not completely, though. Palestinian terrorists, for example, don't wander into a Palestinian market and blow up their neighbors. The civilians may be innocent bystanders, but they are still from the "enemy" nation.
On the other hand, it does work. Bombings in Iraq hurt more Coalition forces and their allies than they do Iraqi on the side of the bombers. On BSG there were more Cylon casualties than human.
Baltar: I definitely do not see him leaving with the Colonials. In the original, Baltar was ini command of a basestar following the RTF. I wondered how they would do that with NuBSG, now I can see it. I imagine Baltar will be following the RTF in a ship of his own with Cylon companions.
Or he'll be on the prison ship. Towards the end of the first (only) season of the original, Baltar had been captured and imprisoned.
Tom Zarek: No, I don't see him dying. Can't kill the most popular recurring guest star. And Zarek is as evil as Ellen Tigh. He's still out for himself. Zarek ultimately only cares about himself and having power. He wants to be the one in charge and if he isn't, he'll resort to violence to cause problesm for those who are in charge. The only saving grace for Zarek is he hates the Cylons worse than humanity.
Ellen Tigh: Does she really love Tigh? I'm thinking so. Ellen has always put me in mind of another character who is simply out for what is best for her, what will profit and benefit her the most. She'll cozy up to, seduce, whatever anyone that can help her live in comfort and luxury and as close to the heart of power as possible.
But she's suprised me this season. It would be in her best interest to cozy up with the Cylons and FORGET Tigh. Who cares if he rots in prison, as long as she has her booze, comforts and sex? But she's working to keep him alive, no matter the cost.
Does this still come back to her own selfish desires? She wants him SO MUCH that she's willing to sell out other humans simply to keep Tigh alive. She doesn't necessarially care about his thoughts and opinions. She loves him but, ultimately, loves herself more. She can't bear the pain of being without him.
Col Tigh: Yeah. Immediately free from prison and right back to the underground. I applaud his sentiments, but question his logic. I kept thinking about the scene from "Red Dawn" where the Soviets let the one kid go after implanting (making him swallow?) a transmitter. If I was Tigh, I would have assumed I was being watched or had some kind of undetectable bug planted inside me.
Anders: What a miricale antibiotics are. Wasn't he on his death bed the end of last season? Wasn't Starbuck away getting drugs when Leoben showed up looking for her? Talk about a recovery.
Gaeta: Gaeta lives. He's the mole, after all. I'm sure there will be some point and some way he reveals that he was helping the Colonials from inside. He'll be lauded a hero.
Cally: I chalked the difference up to a bad editing job.
I see where you come from, thinking she could be a Cylon. It would work, if they want to go that route.
But I don't think she's a Cylon. For Cally to be a Cylon that would mean they would have had to have a Cylon duplicate of her ready to go. They would have had to have the Cylon in the transport to the killing fields.
How long does it take to grow and program a Cylon skinjob from scratch? Unless Cally has always been a Cylon, they would have had to get her specifications,. memories, etc... and implant them in a new model.
Can they replace a real human with a Cylon? Was there a real Boomer, Leoben, etc.. at one point? Or have they all always been Cylons?
Having 2 Callys at the killing fields would be a big risk. The scene from this past episode picked Cally up from the moment she was freed to Tyrol getting her. Didn't Tyrol watch her get cut loose? He kept his eye on her. Switching the two would have been very difficult. Getting Tyrol confused between the two would have been difficult. Too much chance of getting noticed.
For Cally to be a Cylon, the skinjobs would have had to have known about the ambush. Why else make the switch unless it was a planned switch? Why else take the Cylon-Cally to the killing fields?
Cylon Skinjobs: Shouldn't we see all the Cylon models on New Caprica? They seem to have formed a ruling class with all the models having representation. It's convenient that the only skinjobs on the planet are the ones we viewers are already familiar with.
Quite obvious that the skinjobs can tell one individual from another individual of the same model. Is it just the mechanical cylons that can't? That was a major flaw in the plan.
They were talking about the Cylons not being able to distinguish Boomer from the rest. At the time I thought it was bad writing, that they were going to overlook that the others can tell them apart. But then they had her discovered. Immediately. Not bad writing, just an oversite in the planning of the attack.
Still, this ought to mean there should be some way to distinguish the skinjobs from real humans. The more they give these Cylons unique, robotic abilities, the more it should become apparent/easier to build a detection method.
I agree about the Cylon on Cylon violence comment. Seems they were quick to throw that in Caprica 6's face, but then are quick to use the violence themselves.
Speaking of Caprica 6. Why do the Cylons call her that? I know why WE viewers call her that, but I don't think the Cylons should. After all, there were other Cylons on Caprica. Heck, it's their new home away from home.
Of coruse, she was the one that opened the defenses.
Starbuck: Is the baby hers? Why hasn't she killed herself?
Leoben: Absolute Psychotic. He abducts a woman from her husband and community and then expects her to fall in love with him?
What kind of convoluted thinking did the Cylons have? If this is all they wanted, love, they could have had it without destroying the colonies. They could have easily infiltrated society, married, raised families and lived quietly for another 100 years, THEN reveal themselves.
No, instead they nuke the colonies, then want to act all loving and caring.
And what kind of love is it to continue to follow (stalk?) the RTF and set up camp as an occupying force? What kind of love is it to keep people in a prison when the people weren't doing anything wrong?
Sick, twisted love. A need of some kind. A need to be accepted by Humans or kill all the humans.
Obsession.
And this is where the allegory with the US in Iraq breaks down. No matter if you are pro US involvement or against US involvement in Iraq, the allegory drops at this point.
Pro US: Be it WMDs or Saddam oppressing and butchering his own people, the US gave the world an excuse/reason for invasion. What reason did the Cylons have for invading the Colonies? None. Humans weren't living under a dictator and they didn't have any weapons threatening the Cylons.
Doubly true for New Caprica. The invaders came and seized control of a refugee camp. Iraq was much more than a refugee camp.
Against US: Some people feel the war is really about controlling oil production, finishing what Bush started in 1992 or some other personal/political agenda. I can see that with the invasion of the colonies. The Cylons wanted Caprica. They wanted to finish the war they fought 40 years earlier.
But New Caprica? The Humans were RUNNING! They weren't terrorsts (at that point). They weren't going to attack any longer. They ran away. The Cylons followed and seized New Caprica. Why? What was there that they wanted besides the humans? Nothing. It's barely an inhabitable planet.
These are the reasons why humanity would still fight the Cylons. The Cylons didn't approach under a banner of truce or flag of friendship. They didn't open their arms and want peaceful negotiations.
No, they sent in an occupying force. They continued to oppress the humans. They made comments and claims about making improvements, but didn't do anything except oppress the colonists more and more. They continued their sick games of manipulation and control. Abuction, terror, force.
Keep someone under a boot heel long enough and that person either becomes submissive or fights back. In either case, it isn't a peaceful, friendly, equal relationship.
What I wish: There's too much Greek myth refernces. Plenty of other civilizations on Earth to cull from for names and events. How about some Babylonian or Aztec names and myths?
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The original series also had Egyptial and Judaic motifs, as well as being th eBook of Mormon in outer space. Wouldn't mind seeing some Norse or Hindu stuff show up.
--Jonah
-------------------- "That's what I like about these high school girls, I keep getting older, they stay the same age."
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