posted
Well if Calvin intended to have the Final 5 destroyed in the nuclear holocaust, the whole meeting between him and Tyrol may have served as damage control. By telling Tyrol that he wasn't a Cylon, he may have been trying to throw Chief off, preventing him from remembering his true identity.
Registered: Feb 2005
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But Cavil didn't intend for the final five to be completely and irrevocably destroyed in the holocaust. He wanted them to suffer as humans, die, resurrect and reach the conclusion that he was right and humans needed to die.
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Teh PW
Self Impossed Exile (This Space for rent)
Member # 1203
posted
either way, that fucker is miles and miles, more teh rat bastard now...
posted
More good stuff, Battlestar Wiki has finished its page on No Exit: http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/No_Exit (server has apparently been under heavy load ever since the episode). The Analysis is interesting.
Apparently I missed the fact that Ellen claims the Temple was not built, or even modified, by the Final Five, and that the image of the Five has apparently been there since the time the Temple was built (during the original exodus from Kobol).
So, I guess the single big question, for me at least, is who or what is guiding all this?
posted
It's ironic that Ellen was one of a gang who chose to explore resurrection technology when the rest of their kind had instead embraced human procreation, but now she's one of the same small gang who could be said to prefer procreation while the rest of their kind have embraced resurrection!
There were suggestions that a THIRTEENTH Cylon might get thrown into the mix, and it seems that it is indeed the case. It did always seem a bit strange to me, why seven and five? Now we know, it was five and then eight. It may well be that the name of Number Seven, Daniel, was chosen in homage to Daniel Greystone, but I think that's all it'll turn out to be, an homage, I doubt there's anything more significant and it's a common name. No cameos from Eric Stoltz!
Is Daniel - or a Daniel - still around? I wonder. Could they reveal the existence of a thirteenth Cylon without actually featuring him? And can it be anyone we know? Unless he chose to change his features (to stay hidden from John/One/Cavill?) it rules out anyone who the Cavills or Ellen have met - so not Baltar, or Lee or anyone like that. The fact that they would choose to highlight his artistic nature does tend to suggest he's Kara's father. . .
But. Whoever chose to whisk away original-Starbuck (and presumably resurrect her after she crashed on Earth) seems to share some characteristics with the Head-characters, yet we now can assume that the Heads pre-date even the Final Five. Could Daniel have been saved by, and be working with, the Heads? Note that Kara's encounter with Head-Leoben was quite sexual in nature: not the kind of thing you'd expect if her father was behind it! But then, many of the relationships among Cylons seem incestuous in nature, as the Battlestar Wiki page points out.
Daniel Butler
I'm a Singapore where is my boat
Member # 1689
posted
quote:Originally posted by Reverend: It's been a while since I've read the Greek myths but I'm pretty sure there's some eye plucking and mother/son ickyness in there too.
That's from the play "Oedipus Rex" by Sophocles. Hence "Oedipus Complex" meaning a desire to take your father's place with your mother (as coined by Freud). In the play, though, neither Oedipus nor his mother knew they were mother and son; when they found out, the mother killed herself and Oedipus plucked out his own eyes.
However, the myths of the Olympians and Titans are interlaced with incest; Zeus and Hera, for example, are both brother and sister and husband and wife. I think there's a lot more of those kinds of things that go on. It's like the Greek gods didn't have the same taboos as humans do. And neither do the Cylons...I wonder if the "Athena" callsign is entirely arbitrary? (But then, what about "Apollo"...)
Registered: Jul 2005
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posted
If you've never been to Wiki Frakr, now's a good time to start. They've got this great chart: Make Frak, Not War. Kinda disturbing.
-------------------- “Those people who think they know everything are a great annoyance to those of us who do.” — Isaac Asimov Star Trek Minutiae | Memory Alpha
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Daniel Butler
I'm a Singapore where is my boat
Member # 1689
posted
After reading a line in the 'Questions' section of the BSG wiki article, about Cavil coming to appreciate the gift of free will, I'm wondering if there's more Judeo-Christian symbology here. What with the Apple and the Creators giving the Cylons Free Will and weak human flesh, and Cavil resenting both and rebelling against his Creators? All we're missing is an Eden from which he was exiled. (And the BSG wiki noted the Cain/Abel parallelisms with Cavil destroying Line Seven.)
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Teh PW
Self Impossed Exile (This Space for rent)
Member # 1203
posted
Dan: Earth = Cavil/John's Eden? or the colonies?
Daniel Butler
I'm a Singapore where is my boat
Member # 1689
posted
I don't know; he was never at Earth, I don't think, nor do I think he was ever in the Colonies prior to the Second Cylon War. Maybe it's more of a metaphorical "being-cast-out-from-the-affections-and-closeness-with-your-creator" kind of banishment from Eden.
Registered: Jul 2005
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posted
I wouldn't be looking too closely at the symbolism, looking for 1:1 equivalence. For one thing in this situation "John" is both Adam and Kane and nary an Eve in sight. Unless you want to say that Ellen and Saul are Adam and Eve, but that would make Earth Eden when we know they really came from Kobol. So like I said, best not to look too closely.
Daniel Butler
I'm a Singapore where is my boat
Member # 1689
posted
Well, yeah, that's why I said Eden doesn't have to be an actual *place.* Just the idea of being separated from your Creator is a metaphor for Adam and Eve leaving Eden. And there's a lot of Greek symbolism too, so, I don't think this is a Bible allegory or anything; I'm just looking for *some* kind of clue as to what might happen with the final eps. (I haven't found anything yet )
Registered: Jul 2005
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posted
There's a full, if conjectural, timeline which I can't link to on BS Wiki. It occurs to me that if it transpires that Kobol was originally colonised from Earth, then that sorts out the contradiction in the date of when the Temple of Hope/Temple of the Five was built.
One problem though: that timelines states the Five modified the Temple to display their images; but didn't Ellen explicitly deny that? No, I think it's some other force, maybe in collaboration with a surviving Daniel, who's behind that and the Heads and so on.
The name "Daniel" didn't mean anything to Kara, so if he was her father he used a different name.
Or are we focussing too much on the Damiel idea when it could come to nothing and be no more than a retcon to explain a continuity error wherein one of what turned out to be seven Cylon models was numbered Eight?
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