posted
No, it was the point of origin (again.) They were using the origin symbol of the planet they were one, it took Eli to suggest they use the Earth symbol before it worked.
posted
So... does this once and for all conclusively prove that the Earth symbol is on every Gate and is not a unique point of origin symbol? Or are they using Earth's gate at Icarus Base since the Atlantis gate is on Earth now?
If they're suggesting Earth's point of origin symbol is on every gate, it really irritates me. It's one of the things they've been inconsistent with. Sometimes they go out of their way to show that every point of origin symbol is unique, other times, the Earth symbol shows up on an off-world DHD. The point of origin would HAVE to be unique or there could only be as many gates as there are symbols on the gate.
posted
All it really proves is that the Earth symbol was on the Icarus gate. Seriously though it's just one of those things that the writers don't seam to have a clear idea about themselves.
I suppose it's possible that some gates have a limited dialling capability, that is only able to dial addresses that are made up of they symbols it's track & DHD, giving the gate network a branching structure rather than a "cloud" structure.
It's somewhat complicated however by the fact that the Earth chevron is not the original point of origin for Earth, the one on the Antarctic gate was and was even seen to override the Giza gate.
Daniel Butler
I'm a Singapore where is my boat
Member # 1689
posted
I never understood the point-of-origin anyway. Why do you need 6 spatial coordinates to define the endpoint, but only one symbol to define the beginning? If the positional data can be encoded into a single glyph, why aren't all the gate addresses just two chevrons, destination and origin? And if the gate system can keep track of all its neighbors and so forth, why have such a weird constellation-based system at all? Why would the Ancients use *constellations* as addresses? Why not just some numerical address similar to an IP identifying a particular gate? Even if you want to identify the general region of space and connect with a gate if there is one there, why not use a more precise altitude/azimuth or latitude/longitude system, or some other more advanced system? (All of this seemed especially weird in the movie, where there were, apparently, *only two gates.* Why have addresses at all in that case?)
Registered: Jul 2005
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posted
The six symbols could define a vector (location, orientation, magnitude/relativistic velocity?) or perhaps a matrix describing the relative positions/orientations with the seventh defining the sector from which you are coming as a sort of checksum/punctuation. Someone should look that up...
quote:...The inner ring, which rotates within the outer, contains thirty-eight unique symbols representing star constellations and one symbol representing the planet or point of origin. Pairs of Stargates function by generating an artificial stable wormhole between them, allowing one-way travel through. The symbols on the inner ring of the Stargate correspond to constellations and serve to map out coordinates for various destination planets.[1][2]...
...
Addresses
The symbols used to compose addresses are actually pictoral representations of star constellations. By identifying six constellations in space, a single point can be interpolated that corresponds to the destination desired.[22] As only a small portion of the possible combinations of Stargate symbols represent valid addresses, dialing the Gate at random is largely futile. In "Children of the Gods", SG-1 discovers a cartouche on Abydos with a list of valid Stargate addresses, along with a map that allows the SGC to compensate for thousands of years of stellar drift. Another list of Stargate addresses is provided by Jack O'Neill in "The Fifth Race" from knowledge downloaded into his mind by a Repository of the Ancients. In "Rising", a list of Stargate addresses in the Pegasus galaxy is found in the Atlantis database. The SGC assigns designations to Stargate-accessible planets in the form Pxx-xxx (Mxx-xxx is more common in the Pegasus galaxy). Samantha Carter explains in "The Broca Divide" that the designation "is based on a binary code the computer uses for extrapolation".
The symbols dialed are often referred to as "coordinates", and are written as an ordered string; for example, this is the address used in the show for the planet Abydos: (corresponding to the constellations of Taurus, Serpens Caput, Capricornus, Monoceros, Sagittarius and Orion). As explained by Dr. Daniel Jackson in the movie, the Stargate requires seven correct symbols to connect to another Stargate. As shown in the picture opposite, the first six symbols act as co-ordinates, creating three intersecting lines, the destination. The Stargate uses the seventh symbol as the point of origin allowing one to plot a straight line course to the destination.
Eight-symbol addresses are introduced in "The Fifth Race", opening up new plot lines by connecting Stargates to different galaxies. The additional symbol acts as a type of "area code".[4] Such connections, in comparison to seven symbol codes, require substantially more energy to complete a functional wormhole — much more than any standard dialing method can provide. In the first instance, opening an intergalactic wormhole is shown to exceed the total power generation capacity of the SGC at the time. O'Neill fashioned an additional power source using spare parts and the liquid naqahdah power core of a staff weapon. A fully-charged Zero Point Module (ZPM) can provide enough power for regular travel between galaxies.[17][25][26]
Stargate Universe introduces the concept of a nine-symbol address, the purpose of the ninth chevron never having been explored in the previous series.[27] The ninth symbol is suggested to be meant to lock on to moving Stargates, being a distance calculation along the "straight line" from the point of origin to destination (but more of a divide than the eighth chevron multiplier). Like eight-symbol addresses, the dialing this address requires a significant amount of power, such that the SGC had to tap into a planet's unstable radioactive core to meet the energy demand. The nine-symbol address is a specific combination used to dial the Destiny, a massive Ancient vessel that was part of a project to explore the universe, before the Ancients ascended.[28]
At the extra-galactic distances we're talking about, using Earth as a Point of Origin (was this always the Å?) for any point in the Milky Way galaxy would likely constitute a relatively small margin of error. I didn't watch closely enough to see if the crew was dialing nine digits to get back to the ship...
posted
Earth's original gate was the Antarctic gate, no? And it's point of origin was a low line with a circle above it. It seems the pyramid with a circle on it has become the 'Earth-associated' symbol.
Maybe they just got lucky with the Abydos address being a spatial co-ordinate thing. It seems like all the other addresses they've got from Abydos, the Ancient repostiory, Atlantis etc. They've never used ones they 'tried' themselves have they? Except for Abydos and that was on the Stargate cover wasn't it?
-------------------- "Bears. Beets. Battlestar Galactica." - Jim Halpert. (The Office)
posted
A possible explanation for the use of constellations is that they simply used constellations as a way to artistically represent address components. We've seen in SG-1 that each symbol on the Milky Way gate is also a "letter" with an associated sound. Using constellations that are the same on every gate in the galaxy makes no sense at all because constellations visible from earth wouldn't appear the same on the other side of the galaxy.
The truth is, it's a hold-over from the movie that we're not supposed to think too hard about. In the movie, the Abydos gate had a completely different set of constellation symbols which makes alot more sense.
quote:Originally posted by Aban Rune: A possible explanation for the use of constellations is that they simply used constellations as a way to artistically represent address components. We've seen in SG-1 that each symbol on the Milky Way gate is also a "letter" with an associated sound. Using constellations that are the same on every gate in the galaxy makes no sense at all because constellations visible from earth wouldn't appear the same on the other side of the galaxy.
The truth is, it's a hold-over from the movie that we're not supposed to think too hard about. In the movie, the Abydos gate had a completely different set of constellation symbols which makes alot more sense.
The movie logic wasn't exactly flawless either. For one thing, if there was only supposed to be two gates, then why use an address at all? If there's more than one, with each gate using different symbols and a given address only works between two specific gates (like the address for Earth changes depending on where you are because the constellations are different) then what's the point of a network at all? It'd be like someone's phone number changing depending on where you're calling them from (area codes not withstanding) and then you have to dial an extra digit that is specific to your own location. If on the other hand the gates projected wormholes through space without the need of another gate to link to then it might make a little more sense.
I think what the series tried to do is make some semblance of sense with what they inherited but every time the tried it just got more tangled and illogical. For one thing, I was never sure how "adjusting for galactic drift" was supposed to work.
posted
I think the DHDs handled that. They'd periodically update the positions of all the gates so they always had relatively accurate positions for all the gates in the network.
posted
OK. For the hell of it I'm gonna run through this slowly in my head.
You dial from a gate at point A (lets say Earth). The destination gate (lets say Omicron Persei 8, because it's funny) is 1000 light years away from you, in a different part of the galaxy, moving at a diferent speed and direction to Earth ( don't forget that's in 3 dimensions).
Lets say you dial 1-2-3-4-5-6-Å. This corresponds to the rough position in space of Omicron Persei 8 (as we know that the gates don't dial a particular gate, given that the wormhole can jump to another one at the same location).
Move on several thousand or even million years.
You dial 1-2-3-4-5-6-Å from the Earth gate and nothing happens because Omicron Persei 8 has moved and there is now no gate in the destination address "region".
So a weak analogy (in the best Star Trek tradition) would be dialing your Grans phone at her house. Later, your Granny moves house. You dial the old number, you can't get through to her.
So the DHD (or whatever) says address 1-2-3-4-5-6-[origin] = Omicron Persei 8, and adjusts the point in space to which this address points. Like Gran making her new phone number the same as her old one in her new house.
This to me says one fo two things. Either the DHD knows its dialing Omicron Persei 8 and not the intersecting point of 1-2-3-4-5-6. This means that the reference points (i.e. the symbols on the gate) are simply abstract, rather like individual digits that make up a phone number.
I would surmise that if the Antarctca gate is the first ever gate then this makes sense, as they simply decided to use constelations visible from the 1st gates origin as the symbols on the gate.
This allows a standardisation of stargates (except for the orgin symbol, which should be unique on each gate), which also makes sense to me.
But, the fact stellar drift has an effect on dialing a particular address says to me that 1-2-3-4-5-6-[origin] does not equate to saying "Location of Omicron Persei 8".
So I think that means the symbols on the gate reflect non fixed points in space, which the DHDs contiually adjust to take account for stellar drift so you can dial a particular place?
Or am I thinking too hard in order to cover the backsides of showrunners who kind of skipped over the workings of the great and mysterious plot device for dramatic/lazy reasons.
-------------------- I have plenty of experience in biology. I bought a Tamagotchi in 1998... And... it's still alive.
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posted
The problem with the inconsistencies is that they reinforced the movie idea with the first episode of Universe. They had the opportunity to go 'we originally thought this - but we know now it's actually just this, each are words or codes - most of the addresses we've gotten from alien sources.'
-------------------- "Bears. Beets. Battlestar Galactica." - Jim Halpert. (The Office)
Daniel Butler
I'm a Singapore where is my boat
Member # 1689
posted
I really did like that each glyph had a syllable associated with it. I wish they'd use it more - it makes perfect sense. If I had to look at a DHD to see where some alien just dragged my teammate, I'd never remember 7 random shapes, except if I'd been working with them for years (and not every member of every SG team has - probably not even close). However, reading them like an alphabet and getting "proclarush taonas" would make it incredibly easy to remember, and then you can name the planets after that too. Plus, it's easy to tell another person an address - proclarush taonas is a lot easier than "scoripus pisces cancer virgo aquarius" or something.
Registered: Jul 2005
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posted
Totally agree. I believe there are 38 symbols (plus one) on the Milky Way gates (36, I believe on Pegasus and Universe gates) which could correspond quite nicely to an alphabet. Also, is it wrong that Dan's "proclarush taonas" sounds oddly familiar?
I'm not sure the show ever came right out and said this, but my interpretation of how the gate system works is that the gate addresses originally corresponded to the coordinates as defined by constellation triangulation. But as Ginger Beacon mentioned stellar drift has made that less and less true over the intervening centuries. Is why just plugging in the old addresses (from Abydos) didn't work out of the box. Gates with DHDs have been compensating for these movements, but since the SGC gate didn't have a DHD, that's where Sam's stellar drift breakthrough comes fixes everything. Now I'm not about to go back over every DHD dialing we've seen, but does this mean the ring is actually spinning around to a different (presumably corrected) address and not the glyphs as dialed? Also, and I'm nearly certain this would be a very rare occasion, but what happens when a gate is placed at (moves into) the original coordinates of an old gate's coordinates (for which the DHDs have been auto-correcting)? Where does that wormhole go?
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