posted
I've never understood the purpose of using constellations for coordinates in the first place. Individual stars would work much better. A constellation can be made up of stars that are thousands of light years away from each other, and it would be hard to identify a "center" of the constellation. Makes me think more and more that the symbols are just that - symbols, just based on constellations.
Not only that, but Jackson's original coordinate idea for the address in the movie is completely invalid. According to the movie (and ignoring the series for now), Abydos is outside of our galaxy. There's no way you can use any of our constellations to get coordinates in another galaxy in the way he described. I wonder how many people realized he was talking out of his ass, and just got lucky with the seventh symbol?
...... Holy crap, I just realized that Richard Kind was in both the movie and SGA! There's galactic doppelgangers everywhere!
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The movie itself isn't that great a source of Stargate logic in general. After all, they had the first six symbols in order already and they couldn't identify the seventh despite making dials in the past. They just needed to dial the gate 30ish times and they would have found it.
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Daniel Butler
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quote:Originally posted by bX: Totally agree. I believe there are 38 symbols (plus one) on the Milky Way gates (36, I believe on Pegasus and Universe gates) which could correspond quite nicely to an alphabet. Also, is it wrong that Dan's "proclarush taonas" sounds oddly familiar?
And yeah, I thought that too - 30 or so random dials and they'd hit it. They didn't try that in all those years? They really needed some random Egyptologist?
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posted
Or maybe Catherine learned something about the weirdos who showed up at her house one day in 1969 and really wanted Daniel to join the program. She always kind of seemed like she knew more than she was letting on.
A stargate being placed in the location of another one happened on Earth and we saw what happened. The new gate and it's address assumed the position of the old one, but only because the old one's DHD was broken. When the old one was powered back up by the Russians, it cut off the Giza gate.
Here's the problem: If the gate network tracks changes in gate location gradually over centuries in order to maintain an up-to-date location, moving a gate to another solar system in a couple of days should make it useless. No other gate could lock onto it to update it's location and that gate itself couldn't dial out. Our heros have made several references to moved gates broadcasting it's new location or something... but they never really said how it did that.
posted
Funny thing about the symbols-as-syllables idea: they ruined that concept right from the beginning with the second address: "Terra Atlantus" is only five syllables.
-------------------- “Those people who think they know everything are a great annoyance to those of us who do.” — Isaac Asimov Star Trek Minutiae | Memory Alpha
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Daniel Butler
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Plus it's kind of contrived that the syllables happen to match up with what is obviously Ancient for "Atlantis Earth" or...something.
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quote:Originally posted by Aban Rune: Or maybe Catherine learned something about the weirdos who showed up at her house one day in 1969 and really wanted Daniel to join the program. She always kind of seemed like she knew more than she was letting on.
A stargate being placed in the location of another one happened on Earth and we saw what happened. The new gate and it's address assumed the position of the old one, but only because the old one's DHD was broken. When the old one was powered back up by the Russians, it cut off the Giza gate.
Here's the problem: If the gate network tracks changes in gate location gradually over centuries in order to maintain an up-to-date location, moving a gate to another solar system in a couple of days should make it useless. No other gate could lock onto it to update it's location and that gate itself couldn't dial out. Our heros have made several references to moved gates broadcasting it's new location or something... but they never really said how it did that.
I now vaguely recall there being a bit about how the DHDs would periodically synch up their positions and addresses. So there must be some kind of internal database/address book in the DHD that stores addresses and the correction vectors from the last synch upload. Which would explain why Earth was cut off from dialling out because the DHD was disconnected during the revolt. Of course it wouldn't explain why Ra couldn't just gate back through the Antarctica gate...
quote:Originally posted by MinutiaeMan: Funny thing about the symbols-as-syllables idea: they ruined that concept right from the beginning with the second address: "Terra Atlantus" is only five syllables.
quote:Originally posted by Daniel Butler: Plus it's kind of contrived that the syllables happen to match up with what is obviously Ancient for "Atlantis Earth" or...something.
Wasn't there a bit about how the language of the ancients (or one of them, at least) was the basis for Latin? Maybe through Merlin, a few millennia prior to setting up shop in Canterbury. As for the syllables, well every "letter" need not equal a syllable when pronounced as one word. Some may combine into single syllables when put next to one another. Like, for the sake of argument 'c' and 'h' becoming 'Ch'.
posted
Actually, I thought they ruined the symbol as sound thing because O'Niell clearly identified the Earth symbol as "at" but the address for Terra Atlantus (or Atlanticus or whatever) which is Earth and has the AT sound in it, wouldn't have the Earth symbol in the address.
They were trying to be clever but screwed it up.
The the update protocol for the Gates was called the correlative update program. Every gate dials an address on it's own every so often and swaps location info. Possibly runs a compare and contrast on the DHD's entire address book and updates the most recent info on every address.
Daniel Butler
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posted
Yeah, Ancient *was* the basis of Latin. I wasn't commenting on that, I was just saying, it's awfully contrived that the address (and therefore place in the heavens among the constellations) would match up with the word 'terra' like that. Unless they are indeed just 'codes' and did it on purpose. ...But then, the Milky Way gate network was laid down long before the Ancients left for Pegasus, wasn't it?
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quote:Actually, I thought they ruined the symbol as sound thing because O'Niell clearly identified the Earth symbol as "at" but the address for Terra Atlantus (or Atlanticus or whatever) which is Earth and has the AT sound in it, wouldn't have the Earth symbol in the address.
I won't pretend it makes perfect sense (I know the SG writers better than that) but since it's an ancient alphabet and an ancient language, you really can't say that there can't possibly be another symbol of combination of symbols that can produce the 'at' sound. Like for example "ci" and "sy", two totally different pairs of symbols that can produce the same sound, depending on pronunciation. Languages can be slippery things and don't hold to as many rules as some people like to think.
quote:Yeah, Ancient *was* the basis of Latin. I wasn't commenting on that, I was just saying, it's awfully contrived that the address (and therefore place in the heavens among the constellations) would match up with the word 'terra' like that.
Perhaps that sequence is where the ancient word 'terra' comes from originally, not the other way around? I think there's enough wiggle room to make it vaguely plausible.
posted
To answer an earlier question, the Antarctic gate MAY have been the original one put on Earth by the Ancients, but was lost over time. When Ra ambled onto the scene in 8,000 BC he brought his own (or used the original) to harvest humans and spread them around the galaxy. When they revolted and buried the gate, the other System Lords brought in their own (or used the original) and put it in Antarctica to nab their own humans, explaining the various other cultures found around the galaxy. Eventually that one fell into disuse and/or revolt as well, and remained buried until SG-1 stumbled upon it in their first season.
Late, quick notes on this episode now - apologies if this has been gone over already:
- Cute use of "kino-vision" in the "Last time" part of the episode.
- I welcome the return of a practical gate prop on location. For almost the entirety of Atlantis' run (and much of SG-1's 9-10th seasons) the physical prop was replaced with a CG gate that was simply buried upright in the ground instead of up on a pedestal. It saved a lot of money, but looked pretty convenient IMO and a little wierd when the gate was obviously "buried" around a worn path. It also gave the actors little to interact with.
- The WHOLE GATE turns (via CGI) on the desert planet, which is cool - but it differs from the spinning prop on the Destiny, for which only the front "half" of the gate spins. A video on Gateworld shows that the back end of the gate remains stationary while the "watchface" spins. It's only a matter of time until we see this on screen.
- They were checking in every twenty minutes at the start even though they knew they were under a significant power drain at the time.
- O'Neil is a three-star general now! Fans will recall he was a mere one-star Brigadier General when he was made leader of the SGC in SG-1 season 8; he got an extra star the following year when he transferred to the pentagon (taking Hammond's place and rank as Major General) and is now a Lieutenant General in the same place. Apparently it means he can wear a modified version of the Icarus base uniform while in his office in Washington...
- Curtis, the Airman who goes through the gate with Palmer, has a mere M-16 rifle instead of the G-36s everyone else seems to have. Looks like they're down to 22 guns now, and they don't all fire the same ammunition...
- And no, while I think we'll hear them mentioned again at some point, I doubt they'll ever be seen again. There was a reason those addresses were locked out of the dialing options, and those two were probably busy being poisoned or asphyxiated or digested while Eli was trying to contact them. I wish they would have followed up with it, but I guess the writers figured what we got is enough to recognize that YOU DON'T DIAL THE GREYED OUT ADDRESSES.
- It does raise the question as to how Destiny knew to lock out those addresses in the first place, even if they were on planets light years away. Did the ship access preliminary findings from the seeder ship that placed them there and conclude that they were non-viable?
- I was already shouting "stick your arm in the gate!" when the countdown was ticking to zero.
- They may have TWO shuttles on the Destiny with one damaged, but the final pull-away shows that there is a berth for a third shuttle, directly behind and facing the opposite way of the damaged shuttle. You can see the lit-up landing lights (or whatever they are) just outside the window where Chloe and Scott are tenderizing.
- Ooh, alien shuttle / probe / thing! Jives with my earlier supposition that the Icarus people aren't the first to be here. We shall see...
Three hours in, and I'm liking this show so far. Will keep watching.
quote:- It does raise the question as to how Destiny knew to lock out those addresses in the first place, even if they were on planets light years away. Did the ship access preliminary findings from the seeder ship that placed them there and conclude that they were non-viable?
Just more evidence that there is an advanced AI and/or ancient controlling Destiny. It would have to know the capabilities and requirements of it's passengers in order to determine the relative viability of a given planet. After all, I doubt there are many environments that a properly equipped ancient can't deal with and if a planet isn't even remotely viable from the get-go, why drop a gate at all?
Of course it's possible that planet could have been gate-seeded millennia ago (we have no idea how far ahead any of them are) so the more likely scenario is that a device of some sort (perhaps orbital satellite) is dropped along with the gate and can transmit regular viability updates to Destiny.
posted
Concerning Mark's question of how the Destiny knew the conditions on the various planets, I've got a few thoughts...
First, what exactly WAS the Destiny's mission? It seems that there were other automated ships that seeded the various galaxies with stargates. But then if Destiny was the follow-up, what's it following up on? Is it a survey for habitable planets? Wouldn't the seeding ships already pick habitable planets in the first place.
We don't know how the ship's sensors or FTL work. It's possible the ship has mega-long-range sensors that can pick up data from way far away. It's also possible that the ship has an extensive database that is from the various seeder ships.
Then we come to the question of why the Destiny's mission was apparently never fulfilled. Because the thing about learning to ascend is too convenient. They had enough technology to build Atlantis in the mean time, they could have followed up on Destiny too. But maybe something went wrong...
-------------------- “Those people who think they know everything are a great annoyance to those of us who do.” — Isaac Asimov Star Trek Minutiae | Memory Alpha
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Well, something must have poked holes in the hull, I imagine that had something to do the Ancients abandoning it. I gather the initial intention would have been for Destiny to act as a mobile hub for exploring new galaxies. All it had to do was get in range of a batch of stargates and the crew could gate there and back and do whatever it is they do before moving on the the next area.
Daniel Butler
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posted
I thought they explicitly said that's what the mission was - to follow the seeder ships, so that it was in range of both the way-far-out gates and the Milky Way/Pegasus/whatever networks, to allow Ancients many millennia after its launch to explore the new planets the seeder ships found. Or did I just assume that and think they said it explicitly?
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