posted
Well I didn't think it would be a matter of Skynet sending back Terminators at different times... the fact that there was no SKYNET to BEGIN WITH because of the events in T2 - there shouldn't be any more Terminators. But then that means that there should be either a Terminator or an Agent Doggett Terminator in T2 - Then it ALSO means that there shouldn't be a Terminator in the first movie. Which means no one gets sent back into the past. That means no John Conner.
But that doesn't happen. So it means there is always going to be a SkyNet - simply because John Conner exists.
Somehow SkyNet will still exist. I always thought it might have something to do with his arm that gets left in the door in T2. It doesn't get melted down.
I hate temporal mechanics.
-------------------- "Bears. Beets. Battlestar Galactica." - Jim Halpert. (The Office)
posted
*pats him on the back* There, there. Look, there's a nebula over there, maybe there's some coffee in there. Go take a look. 8)
Registered: Jul 2000
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posted
I remember having a about a two hour discussion about the various timelines in the Terminator movies with two of my co workers. We drew it out on a white board and everything. It's basically not possible the things in the first movie happened the way they did. Or at the very least, it's not possible that what we're seeing is the "first time around" for the timeline.
Wasn't this thread about the X-Men sequel... Who got it off topic? Oh yah... that was me... sorry
Registered: Oct 1999
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posted
IIRC, they supposedly disposed of the extra arm off-camera. And it's correct that what we saw in the first movie was an altered timeline. Skynet would have existed anyway, just later. John Connor (or at least A John Connor) would ALSO have existed anyway, just later. Little has actually changed, except that Connor has future knowledge now.
Registered: Mar 1999
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quote:Originally posted by Omega: IIRC, they supposedly disposed of the extra arm off-camera. And it's correct that what we saw in the first movie was an altered timeline. Skynet would have existed anyway, just later. John Connor (or at least A John Connor) would ALSO have existed anyway, just later. Little has actually changed, except that Connor has future knowledge now.
After reading the cut scene that was supposed to go at the begining of the movie (the future war sequence was supposed to be much longer and far more elaborate) I got the distinct impression that Conner knew exactly what was going to happen, given his reaction to seeing the non-active T-800s.
posted
The T-800 that they reprogram, the Arnie in T2.
The following scene is taken from the end of what was to be an extended Future War sequence at the beginning of the movie, it was cut after the second draft because of the potential costs in time, money and effort. It was also a narrative tangent that would have really slowed the movie down and could have extended the total running time to nearly 3 hours.
However, snippets of action from this draft survive in the final film and so is largely consistent with what was ultimately presented on screen.
The scene takes place shortly after Connor has been told of Skynet's destruction in Colorado and Kyle has just been sent back in time.
quote: FUENTES: Now what happens to Reese? I mean, what did happen?
Connor's gaze seems far away from this time and place.
CONNOR: He accomplishes his mission and in doing so, he dies.
FUENTES: He is a good soldier.
Connor solemnly nods.
CONNOR: Yes. He's also my father.
FUENTES: Madre de Dios!
Fuentes stares at Connor in amazement. He has just been given a glimpse into his leader's private Hell. Connor turns from the smoking chamber. He seems suddenly ten years older as his features drain of strength, shoulders sagging.
Fuentes shouts an order in Spanish to a waiting Sapper team.
FUENTES:(in Spanish) Sapper team. Set your charges. Let's blow this place back to Hell.
Connor shakes his head no. Mustering his strength.
CONNOR: Not yet. There's one more thing we have to do.
TIGHT ON MASSIVE DOORS OF STEEL, covered with a thin sheet of ice. Locking bolts slam back. Ice shatters like glass as the doors begin to open. We are in--
INT. COLD STORAGE FACILITY
Connor walks into the darkness, followed by a few technicians. They are in a vault-like cold-storage room. Hanging in steel racks from ceiling tracks are hundreds of what appear to be men. They are in rows of ten. Within each row, each of the bodies are absolutely identical.
Connor signals the techs to remain by the door and walks out among the dark bodies. They are UNACTIVATED TERMINATORS. He stops at a row in which they are identical to the terminator which was sent back to kill Sarah (the Arnold model).
He walks to the end of the row. There is one empty rack. He faces the terminator in the next rack. It's eyes are closed. John seams distant as he studies that face. Fuentes enters the chamber, pushing past the technicians. Calls for his leader in the darkness.
FUENTES: John?...John?...
TIGHT ON CONNOR, his face pensive as Fuentes calls his name. Fuentes voice slowly dissolves to ANOTHER VOICE. A woman's. Echoing as though from a great distance....
CUT TO:
That scene was meant to dissolve into the one with John sat on his motorbike in his foster parent's garage.
As you can see, he defiantly was meant to have foreknowledge of the events of T2 since there's no other way that he'd recognise the Model-101. Which means that the whole story arc is one of predestiny, not alternate timelines. So while the future is not set, the fate the characters made for themselves did, is and will be leading to Judgement Day.
The real question for me is just how much foreknoledge, if any did Skynet itself have of it's origins and ultimate fate?
posted
Actually, that could still be interpreted as fitting into divergent timelines. In the timeline after T2, Skynet must still exist, and must still send two terminators back to destroy John Connor, who must ultimately be defeated. If any of these things don't happen, it creates a paradox. So in the timeline as it should still exist, Connor still has to send the Terminator back in time.
-------------------- "This is why you people think I'm so unknowable. You don't listen!" - God, "God, the Devil and Bob"
Registered: Mar 1999
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posted
What are you saying about predestiny? That the Connor boy in T2 - knew what was going to happen!?!?!?! It didn't seem like that to me. He only knew as much as his mother told him - which he considered rambling lies of a lunatic.
The Future Connor knows what will happen cause he sends the Terminator back - he's remembering what happened. BUT if he knew what he does - does not end Sky-net (i.e. he's still fighting a war) then why did he not send the Arnie-T back? Why not just leave it not happen - he would then cease to exist, and we'd have no movie. Is that a good or a bad thing? Linda Hamilton might have ended up playing Captain Janeway! As was rumoured back in 1994!
-------------------- "Bears. Beets. Battlestar Galactica." - Jim Halpert. (The Office)
posted
What about that "scene" where the T-800 is rolling on a conveyor belt, gets welded in the head and scanned for anomalies, then sent to the meatpress for its arnie-flesh?
They always used snippets of this scene in all the documentaries about T2 at the time... I've heard they show the creation of T-1000 as well...
But it wasn't on the Director's Cut.
-------------------- "I'm nigh-invulnerable when I'm blasting!" Mel Gibson, X-Men
Registered: Aug 1999
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posted
That scene was from the teaser trailer for T2, and I don't think it was ever supposed to be in the movie. It WAS a very cool teaser, seeing the T-800 built from start to finish... It's on the DVD.
As for the T-1000 scene, I've never heard of that one.
-------------------- Sheridan: "Well, as answers go, short, to the point, utterly useless and totally consistant with what I've come to expect from a Vorlon..." Kosh: "Good." Sheridan: "I REALLY hate it when you do that..." Kosh: "Good."
Registered: Mar 1999
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posted
Hmmm ok... so what *really* happens in the future is that the rebels smash SkyNet, SkyNet sends a the Arnie T v.1 back to kill Sarah and the Doggett T back to kill John at about the same time. The rebels send Reese back to protect Sarah and the reprogrammed Arnie T v.2 back to protect John, again, at about the same time.
Ok... I can buy all that. Though, it would have meant that the Arnie T models and the Dogget T models where in use by the machines at the same time OR that after they sent the Arnie T back, the timeline was altered because of the components it left behind, and they suddenly had greater capabilities as well as the humanoid T's.
So... where does that leave room for *another* arnie T and this pure energy hottie T?
posted
Depends on the plot of the movie. If the terminators come back in time, then Skynet just sent three instead of two. Again, however many movies they make.
And IIRC, the T-1000 was a prototype.
-------------------- "This is why you people think I'm so unknowable. You don't listen!" - God, "God, the Devil and Bob"
Registered: Mar 1999
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