posted
I posted this over on a Harry Potter message board, but I thought I'd post it here. Y'all are a bit more... shall we say, cultured than the average 14-year-old HP-fan, so I thought you might appreciate it more. Someone posted a thread over at www.thesnitch.net talking about supposed similarities between Lord of the Rings and Harry Potter. Well, most of the similarities people seem to find are things like Wormtail and Wormtongue both being traitors, but I decided to compile a list of some overall thematic similarities shared by Harry Potter, The Matrix, Lord of the Rings, Babylon 5, and Star Wars. Spoilers for all.
There's always a prophecy that tells of a great hero to come, about whose actions will revolve the fate of all: Trelawney's about Harry, that he would be the one with the power to strike down the Dark Lord; Valen's about the coming war and Sheridan, the One, not to mention various glimpses of the future throughout the run; the Oracle's about The One, how Morpheus would find him and Trinity would love him; and whoever's about the one who will bring balance to the force, whatever the frell that means, which I'm assuming is actually Luke for the sake of argument. (I don't recall a prophecy in LotR, but it's been a while. Anybody?) That prophecy also tells of a great war, which will be a repitition or continuation of a past war: the repeating Shadow wars of Babylon 5, with a 1,000 year interval between previous and current; the wars against Sauron, again with a 1,000 year interval; the wars against Valdemort, with a fifteen-year interval; the war to save the Republic (which, uniquely, was LOST the first time!); and the war against the machines in the Matrix, which was believed to be a continuation of the war of the early 21st century, but is in reality a repitition of five previous identical wars. This war is against a great evil force which was only barely stopped the previous cycle, and that only temporarily: Sauron by dumb luck of having his finger cut off; the Shadows by Valen's appearance with Babylon 4; Voldemort by the Potter's sacrifice; and the machines, supposedly by only missing one city, but in reality because they need that city and thus allow it to survive. The hero is always left with some physical damage as a result of his encounter with evil: Harry's scar; Luke's artificial arm; Sheridan's shortened lifespan; Frodo's missing finger. Neo we don't know yet, since Revolutions isn't out yet, but his coma at the end of Reloaded could certainly qualify.
Also, at some point the mentor is always removed from play, removing the hero's support structure and forcing the hero to act on his own: Kosh and General Hague die; Yoda and Obi-Wan die; Morpheus is captured, and later the prophecy is revealed as a lie; Gandalf "dies" at Khazad'dum. The hero has the legs knocked out from under him. We saw a bit of this in Harry in the fifth book, where he believes that none of the Order can be contacted and must act on his own. He's also shown that his father is not the man Harry thought him to be. Whether this will continue to a more extreme degree remains to be seen. There's also a running theme of good guys falling great distances as a consequence of a battle: Gandalf at Khazad'dum; Sheridan at Z'ha'dum; Luke in Empire; and Trinity in Reloaded. Haven't seen this one in Harry Potter yet that I recall.
That's what I see thus far. There may be more. Or I may be seeing things that aren't there. Opinions, input?
-------------------- "This is why you people think I'm so unknowable. You don't listen!" - God, "God, the Devil and Bob"
Registered: Mar 1999
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posted
Been reading Joseph Campbell lately?
Registered: Mar 1999
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Da_bang80
A few sectors short of an Empire
Member # 528
posted
you see the hero prophecy more in fantasy, such as D&D, playing baldurs gate you're the offspring of an evil god Bhaal, the lord of murder. while it's been a awhile since i've played it, I believe there is a prophecy aspect in the game in which on of these "Bhaalspawn" would become the new lord of murder.
As for LOTR, there is the prophecy about the One ring. i'll probably watch it tommarrow now that you got me interested.
-------------------- Grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change. The courage to change the things I cannot accept. And the wisdom to hide the bodies of all the people I had to kill today because they pissed me off.
posted
Actually Aragorn was The One in LOTR. An oracle in Arnor (the seat of the great N�men�reans at the time, IIRC) prophesized his appearance and role in the endgame, many thousand years before the fellowship.
-------------------- "I'm nigh-invulnerable when I'm blasting!" Mel Gibson, X-Men
Registered: Aug 1999
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No matter how original and how off kilter u try to be you still run into the conventions. There's no escaping it. And if you don't it doesn't gel. Can you imagine police cheif that doesn't snap every scene he's in. -------------------- Axel Foley: Don't you think I realize what's going on here, miss? Who do you think I am, huh? Don't you think I know that if I was some hotshot from out of town that pulled inside here and you guys made a reservation mistake, I'd be the first one to get a room and I'd be upstairs relaxing right now. But I'm not some hotshot from out of town, I'm a small reporter from "Rolling Stone" magazine that's in town to do an exclusive interview with Michael Jackson that's gonna be picked up by every major magazine in the country. I was gonna call the article "Michael Jackson Is Sitting On Top of the World," but now I think I might as well just call it "Michael Jackson Can Sit On Top of the World Just As Long As He Doesn't Sit in the Beverly Palm Hotel 'Cause There's No Niggers Allowed in There!"
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-------------------- The philosopher's stone. Those who possess it are no longer bound by the laws of equivalent exchange in alchemy. They gain without sacrifice and create without equal exchange. We searched for it, and we found it.
Registered: Mar 1999
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No, I'm afraid that Simon is again the winner, gaining precious points for promptness, directness and succinctness as is his wont. The only possible contender would have been "Joe Campbell, much?" but he was so already there.
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Cartman
just made by the Presbyterian Church
Member # 256
posted
Alas, it is impossible to best The Giant Sour One.
Registered: Nov 1999
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See, that's one thing I was wondering about. Is there one big myth that they all borrow all these elements from, or did Lord of the Rings first compile all those elements from several older myths, and the rest of 'em borrow from that? Or is it all a grand coincidence?
-------------------- "This is why you people think I'm so unknowable. You don't listen!" - God, "God, the Devil and Bob"
Registered: Mar 1999
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I think you can just chalk it all down to that theory, I forget who first espoused it, that there are 'really' only about 9 basic plotlines and any story only ever borrows from bits and pieces of each. Themes found in LoTR crop up in non-SF/Fantasy stories (although it's far too late for me to think of any right now!).
That said, I'm interested in where you're going with this so carry on. Maybe you'll be able to explain why I keep thinking Voldemort will turn out to be Harry's father. 8)
Though if you ask me Jung was off his rocker, and I'm not the hugest Campbell fan. But if it's "All myths stem from a common source" you want, here are two good places to start.
Registered: Mar 1999
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As for Valdy being Harry's father, he's not, James looks too much like Harry. But part of it is that, like I mentioned with Wormtail and Wormtongue, people look for plot similarities that are way too specific, when the real similarities are between more general things. "People getting their arms cut off" as opposed to "people having physical wounds".
-------------------- "This is why you people think I'm so unknowable. You don't listen!" - God, "God, the Devil and Bob"
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What's the difference though between a rip-off and a homage? Wormtail and Wormtongue's roles in their respective series seem very different. After all, Scabbers wasn't poisioning Ron's mind for years before Harry turned up, was he?
-------------------- Yes, you're despicable, and... and picable... and... and you're definitely, definitely despicable. How a person can get so despicable in one lifetime is beyond me. It isn't as though I haven't met a lot of people. Goodness knows it isn't that. It isn't just that... it isn't... it's... it's despicable.
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