quote:Originally posted by Omega: For the record, I believe you'll find that I didn't say I liked Alien Resurrection. I just liked it better than 3. This says nothing at all.
Nothing except that Alien3 SUCKED ASS, which it DID...
Registered: Jun 2001
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Oddly, Alien3 had the best acting and worst plot.
If I want to see great actors doing their very best with a shitty plot, I'll rent 9th Gate.
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
Registered: Aug 2002
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quote:Originally posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim:
quote:Originally posted by Omega: For the record, I believe you'll find that I didn't say I liked Alien Resurrection. I just liked it better than 3. This says nothing at all.
Nothing except that Alien3 SUCKED ASS, which it DID...
I respectfully disagree. While Alien3 will never go down in history as being a fine piece of writing, it's leagues better than it might have been (anyone who read the draft script with the wooden space station and the crazy monks should agree.) I think the main reason why I like it is because it's the only film of the four that had a heart, all the others were about sheer survival and desperation while this one had the "protagonists" turning around and fighting the creature, not to mention shouting a load of verbal abuse at it (Sure in Aliens Ripley went back into the hive and had a go at the queen, but that was more of a maternal instinct thing.)
Aside from that I really liked the design and the speed of the creature itself, all the others in my opinion suffered a bit from the inescapable "guy in rubber suit" syndrome. While Ridley did a good job of hiding the creature in shadow and mystery and Cameron did very well in utilising numbers and motion to disguise the inferior quality of the costumes, both incarnations still had the feel of something that was vaguely human. On the other hand the third alien was purely animalistic, which to me seamed allot more dangerous given the creatures apparent inherent intelligence.
Plus Alien3 is the first time Ripley gets laid in the better part of a century, now that has to be something worth watching...even if you don't actual witness it. Spot the contradiction.
I don't know, I guess I'm just a sucker for films that end on a dark note.
Oh and for the record, Ripley didn't commit suicide. She just made sure her body was properly disposed of...and that the nasty company men didn't get the queen they wanted.
Which reminds me, does anyone know what the deal was with the human Bishop at the end? I ask because after he'd been cracked over the head his ear sort of bent outwards, was he wearing a mask or what?
posted
We are supposed to be confused about whether that is a human or a robot, at the end, I think. In the human column, his blood is red. Yet he recovers awfully quickly from that blow to the head. At any rate, it doesn't seem like it matters much, because what real difference to the film does it make?
Registered: Mar 1999
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There's also the fact that he appears to be the same age as robo-Bishop.
Assuming that all robo-Bishops look the same, it is logical to assume that they are based on the appearence of their creator. I can't remember how long passed between Aliens and Alien3 (and no, I'm not going to superscript it), but for him to be human, it would have to be a very short period of time, and the robo-Bishops would have to be pretty much brand new at the start of Aliens.
Actually, something about the ending of that film bugged me. Alien and Aliens show that it takes months and years to travel between planets, and yet the company turns up after Ripley's been there for, what, a week?
-------------------- Yes, you're despicable, and... and picable... and... and you're definitely, definitely despicable. How a person can get so despicable in one lifetime is beyond me. It isn't as though I haven't met a lot of people. Goodness knows it isn't that. It isn't just that... it isn't... it's... it's despicable.
Registered: Mar 1999
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Porbably the Bishop feom A3 was another android: they just got around to coloring the mushroom soup that passes for their blood.
I believe several years and passed between A2 and A3. The company might have been searching along the Sulaco's flight path for some time though (I guess).
Big plothole though.
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
Registered: Aug 2002
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posted
Well they could have had representatives at some space hub close by the system or something.
The Bishop in Alien 3 had red blood? I always took it for a fact that his skin and ear coming off like that, without him caring about it, was a sure sign he was a company android and not to be trusted.
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Registered: Aug 1999
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Because as with Ash, it seems androids seem to be partial to their owner's orders, if they've been issued. Original-Bishop didn't have that problem because he wasn't sent to bring specimens but to be advisor and technician against an unknown threat, he could make decisions from his own head. He probably didn't even rank on the same level as Ash, keeping the shipcrew in check, he was just an addition to the little task force, trying to help in any way he could.
The second Bishop lied to her face. What's funny is that even though Ripley, Hicks, Newt and Bishop had crashlanded there after their escape from LV-426, the company-Bishop called her by name and tried to exploit her feelings of trust toward original Bishop. How could they possibly have known about the bond between the two? Writer's screwup?
-------------------- "I'm nigh-invulnerable when I'm blasting!" Mel Gibson, X-Men
Registered: Aug 1999
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"I cannot harm, or through omission of action, allow harm to come to a human being."
Granted the writers for A3 probably didn't pay attention to this little bit of A2 dialogue... But sould this apply to Bishop 2? Alternatively, they coulda just skipped installing the Asimov Routine into this particular model.
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He would just deliver her to the team, though. If she died when they cut it out of her, or if they just left her in a locked observation room waiting for it to pop, wouldn't be his problem.
Anyone know exactly what he said when she started going for the furnace? His pleas? Would be interesting.
-------------------- "I'm nigh-invulnerable when I'm blasting!" Mel Gibson, X-Men
Registered: Aug 1999
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quote: We are supposed to be confused about whether that is a human or a robot, at the end, I think. In the human column, his blood is red. Yet he recovers awfully quickly from that blow to the head. At any rate, it doesn't seem like it matters much, because what real difference to the film does it make?
I'm not sure that the film makers quite knew what he was either, which is why I suspected that he was a human wearing a Bishop mask.
One point of interest though, this is from the novelisation.
Aaron picked up a chunk of broken pipe, muttering. 'You fucking droid!' The pipe landed hard on Bishop II's head. The impact was spongy. The man staggered, twitching as his troops shot the acting superintendent down. Red blood poured from Bishop II's cracked skull. 'I am...not a...droid.' the bleeding figure mumbled in surprise as it crumpled to the floor. Ripley clutched at her chest. 'It's moving.' Company men rushed to the fallen Bishop II. He turned on his side, watching her. 'You owe it to us. You owe it to yourself.' A beautific smile crossed her face. Then she almost snarled. 'No way!' 'It's too late' 'It's not!' Bishop II pleaded with her. Staggering, she clutched both hands to her chest over the rising heat. 'Good-bye.' 'Nooo!' Bishop II howeled.
It should be noted however that the novel is apparently based on an earlier draft of the script. One where the alien is spawned from an Ox, instead of a dog, Dillon doesn�t stay in the mould and in which they succeeded in trapping the creature in the toxic waste container...for a while.
So they could have also changed their thoughts on the nature of Bishop II.
quote: Actually, something about the ending of that film bugged me. Alien and Aliens show that it takes months and years to travel between planets, and yet the company turns up after Ripley's been there for, what, a week?
Again, in the novel I think it's mentioned that a ship that was in the neibourhood was diverted to Fury-161 by the company. It's still a little sudden though. I suppose it could have been a rescue vessel that was sent to search for the Sullaco, which was apparantly destroyed or severly crippled (Once more from the novel, it's an explosion from the Sullaco that damages the EEV so badly that it has to ditch in a planet and also why Hicks and Newt didn't survive the splash-down.)
quote: Because as with Ash, it seems androids seem to be partial to their owner's orders, if they've been issued. Original-Bishop didn't have that problem because he wasn't sent to bring specimens but to be advisor and technician against an unknown threat, he could make decisions from his own head. He probably didn't even rank on the same level as Ash, keeping the shipcrew in check, he was just an addition to the little task force, trying to help in any way he could.
I think the main difference here that Ash was a covert plant, assigned to the Nostromo at the last minute who's sole purpose was to ensure that the company got the sample it wanted. Bishop was already a permanent fixture with this particular group (Platoon?) of Marines (his knife trick was already old hat). I'm not sure but if you watch Aliens you might notice that Bishop isning in the waking up scene in they cryo-room and that IIRC he doesn't show up until the mess hall scene. Again according to the novel he had been awake during the whole journey, tending to the ship and that this new breed of Android was neccesaraly more independant and adaptable than the older models, able to develope personalities and even feelings. Something which is reflected in his preference for the term 'artificial person'. Aside from that Burke fills the Ash/antagonist role in the second move.
quote: How could they possibly have known about the bond between the two? Writer's screwup?
If as Bishop-I says, the company knows everything that happens on board the ship then they would have a record of the conversation between Ripley and Bishop as they got off the dropship, along with (possibly) video footage of the battle with the Queen. If they also had recorders on the dropship itself then that might be enough to determine the bond between them.
quote: Anyone know exactly what he said when she started going for the furnace? His pleas? Would be interesting.
If I remember this correctly...
After Morse gets shot:- (to the trooper) Stop! It was a mistake, there was no need for any of it.
After Aaron gets gunned down:- Ripley, think of all we can learn from it. It's the chance of a lifetime! You must let me have it.
As the platform stops:- What are you doing?
As Ripley falls back:- Nooo!
He defiantly seams to have a personal stake in this, which is another tick in the human box.
That BTW is my favourite scene in the whole Alien saga, due in no small part to the scoring. A close second is the power loader/bitch moment in Aliens.
Saltah'na
Chinese Canadian, or 75% Commie Bastard.
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posted
I have one thing to note about Alien Ressurection. If you think the plot in Alien 3 was bad, just look at the excuse to bring back Ripley in Alien 4.
Because they wanted to recreate the Alien, they had to recreate Ripley. Doesn't that sound stupid?
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Registered: Mar 1999
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Stupid was the alien hybrid getting sucked into space like it was made from tothpaste. It's body would have just plugged that little gap.
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
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