posted
Not if you dont subscribe to the old 100 year (or whatever) timeframe between Zion getting wiped out and rebuilt. Watching the councilman's conversation with Neo seems to have lots of pregnant pauses and things left unsaid. The whole "is that whay there's no young people on the council" question from Neo in particular is odd.....and is deftly avoided by the councilman. The council could be the last survivors of the current Zion's founding.
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
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quote:Originally posted by Aban Rune: Well, which part didn't you understand? Some of it is no doubt meant not to be understood until part 3. I undstood most of what he was saying, though I'm not sure I believe it all.
I was mostly just kidding.
I understood that Neo was the sixth in line of prior "One's" meant to reinsert the code into the Core Network and rebuild Zion and all that jazz and that the Oracle is meant to be another intuitive program to study Human nature and guide the One towards his destiny which is just another form of control but like you the entire speech struck me as dishonest. Like a last ditch act of desperation to save the machines from the One.
Perhaps Neo made the right choice in ignoring his destiny to go to the Source and in choosing love over the preservation of the Human race. It sounds a bit hokey I know but what movie doesn't have a hokey "love conquers all" theme?
-------------------- "You must talk to him; tell him that he is a good cat, and a pretty cat, and..." -- Data "I will feed him" -- Worf (Phantasms)
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quote:Originally posted by Jason Abbadon: Not if you dont subscribe to the old 100 year (or whatever) timeframe between Zion getting wiped out and rebuilt. Watching the councilman's conversation with Neo seems to have lots of pregnant pauses and things left unsaid. The whole "is that whay there's no young people on the council" question from Neo in particular is odd.....and is deftly avoided by the councilman. The council could be the last survivors of the current Zion's founding.
Good idea about him being the previous "One". I liked his character and his conversations with Neo as well.
Particularly telling was where he tried to convince Neo that Machines were dependent on man and vice versa. It was almost like he was trying to convince Neo of the choice that needed to be made.
And also his absolute belief in Morpheus and the Prophecy (which it would seem is just established to keep the Humans restarting the Matrix over and over again). The Council as well seemed more intuitive and believing in the Prophecy then most of the youngsters in the fleet.
Edit: Off topic, but have the Machines never heard of nuclear power? The whole premise that they were dependent on Humans for energy was flawed to begin with (but nescessary to the needs of the plot).
-------------------- "You must talk to him; tell him that he is a good cat, and a pretty cat, and..." -- Data "I will feed him" -- Worf (Phantasms)
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posted
I don't think the council member is the previous One. Nothing that the Architect says suggests that the One will be part of the next Zion. He just has to choose its members. Plus, the council member said he was asleep for the first 11 years of his life, referring, no doubt, to when his mind was freed by the resistence.
I am, however, wondering if the council, is the group chosen by the previous One. If Morpheus' figure of 100 years is accurate, they couldn't be. Either way, the guy knows more than he lets on.
I also don't think the Architect is lying, per se, but I don't think he's telling Neo the whole story. For instance, that there is in fact a way to beat the system.
"Plus, the council member said he was asleep for the first 11 years of his life, referring, no doubt, to when his mind was freed by the resistence."
That, of itself, doesn't mean anything. If Neo had done what the Architect told him to, and if he were a part of Zion, Part VII, he could make a comment to the effect of "I slept for the first x years of my life" also.
Registered: Mar 1999
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I don't think the council member is the previous One. Nothing that the Architect says suggests that the One will be part of the next Zion. He just has to choose its members. Plus, the council member said he was asleep for the first 11 years of his life, referring, no doubt, to when his mind was freed by the resistence. __________________________________________________
How does that differ from Neo's story though? He was asleep for the first __ number of years of his life (as mentioned in the post above) until he was freed by the resistance as well. __________________________________________________
I am, however, wondering if the council, is the group chosen by the previous One. If Morpheus' figure of 100 years is accurate, they couldn't be. Either way, the guy knows more than he lets on. __________________________________________________
Yeah, that's a possibility. There's so much Morpheus doesn't know and he seems to have been lead on by the Oracle. Whether her prophecies were for good or ill remains to be seen. So the 100 year figure may be meaningless. __________________________________________________
I also don't think the Architect is lying, per se, but I don't think he's telling Neo the whole story. For instance, that there is in fact a way to beat the system. __________________________________________________
This is pure speculation but in the trailer for Revolutions it appears that Neo makes some kind of deal with some central control nexus for the Matrix (it looks like a big talking porcupine ) that if he takes out Smith the Machines will let Zion exist. Now, somehow I doubt the Machines will keep there word on that but who knows? They definately attack Zion but we don't know if that is before, after, or during the time Neo fights Smith.
-------------------- "You must talk to him; tell him that he is a good cat, and a pretty cat, and..." -- Data "I will feed him" -- Worf (Phantasms)
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Da_bang80
A few sectors short of an Empire
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posted
I'd have to say, that the Twins were my favorite. They kicked ass! Sure, they didn't say much, but actions speak louder than words.
-------------------- Grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change. The courage to change the things I cannot accept. And the wisdom to hide the bodies of all the people I had to kill today because they pissed me off.
posted
Just seen the trailer for Revolutions (went to see Kill Bill): is it me or is there blue sky behind a shot of one of the human hovercraft crashing? It's towards the end of the trailer and was only a very brief shot.
-------------------- "I am an almost extinct breed, an old-fashioned gentleman, which means I can be a cast-iron son-of-a-bitch when it suits me." --Jubal Harshaw
Registered: Feb 2002
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posted
The Twins are cool. They also have killer fashion sense. I could never really figure out what they are though. I guess they're deleted programs like everyone else associated with the Mirolvingian (I know I butchered that).
"We are getting annoyed." "Yes we are."
I'm guessing that there's a whole other level to this that we don't know about yet.
posted
I do know the "Mirolvingian" tries to have the Oracle killed for some reason, so we're almost sure to see the twins fight.
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
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posted
Did the twins die when Morpheus blew up the SUV, or did it just take them out of action for awhile? We saw them ghostify and they were still alive then... it kind of seems like there's no way to really kill them.
Which brings up the interesting question of, why do bullets kill *any* of the programs, i.e. The Key Maker. When the agents get hit, it's the body they wee inhabiting that gets killed. The Programs aren't tied in any way to human bodies... why do the Matrix bullets hurt them?
I guess they're still tied to the system... and the system says that when they get hit by a bullet, it kills them... but still... that doesn't seem to work either.
Registered: Oct 1999
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Actually it's aggravated, not annoyed. That's got to be my favourite line out of both Matrix movies.
As for what they and the werewolves (?) programs are about, they might be former agents of a previous Matrix. The architect said that after the first Utopian Matrix failed that he turned to human history as a model. Perhaps in one of the version he based the Matrix on a much earlier time, perhaps the dark ages where he thought that ignorance and superstitions would be a good way to control the minds. In a world like that, spectres, werewolves and the like are the natural forms for the agents of the system. The current ones only look like generic government agents because that is specific to our period in history.
![[Wink]](wink.gif)
) that if he takes out Smith the Machines will let Zion exist. Now, somehow I doubt the Machines will keep there word on that but who knows? They definately attack Zion but we don't know if that is before, after, or during the time Neo fights Smith.![[Smile]](smile.gif)
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