quote: Dooku never showed anything else than elegance, tempo and initiative, with very clean and strong moves. He beat both Knights by the numbers and wasted almost no energy other than what was needed, although he seemed fatigued after.
Dooku after he fought Anakin was drained, because of Anakin's brute power. It was only Dooku's experience and training that saved him. Obviously, either Anakin got better at the lightsaber duel or he just got far more powerful than Dooku can handle either as a Jedi or a Sith.
I think the reason why Vader is the way he is in the original trilogy (Star Wars thinking) besides the fact that he is practically a machine, is that he wasn't fully trained as a Jedi. Obviously, Vader/Anakin was easier to agitate or anger. Dooku was pretty much like Obi Wan in Episode IV except that he (Dooku) was a better trained and more powerful Jedi than Obi Wan. So Jedi as they get older become more mellow. I'm sure that Dooku (like Obi Wan in Ep I) was easier to ge him angry.
-------------------- Matrix If you say so If you want so Then do so
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Keep in mind that Obi-Wan wasn't beaten by Vader, he gave up his life, recognizing that his part in the puzzle was over for now. Remember the look he gave to Luke, before lifting back his saber? Very confident, hopeful and perhaps relieved that Luke hadn't fallen down in some bottomless chasm so far. This little one would carry on the struggle. Maybe he had a premonition of the events in TESB or ROTJ.
During his last moments, Kenobi didn't look fatigued or distressed at all, though he knew and had accepted that he couldn't beat Vader by force, obviously. Like two armwrestlers, where one is markedly stronger, but the other is better at defense and locking the elbow, it can go on a long time.
About Dooku, I wouldn't agree that he was mellow against Kenobi/Anakin, he held the initiative almost all the time, and did beat Kenobi by being stronger (saberlock). I think saberlocks aren't only resolved by the one physically stronger, but also stronger in the force. He even grinned at Kenobi when subduing him, that's my favorite part of the movie, the malevolence and dry, sardonic assurance in that smile.
That's why I think he's a cool guy, Lee. I know no other actor at that age that can deliver such imaginative and dynamic acting expressions. I once sparred with an australian 7th Dan Shihan, he threw himself over my chinks and comparatively sloppy guard poses like a hungry kitten, it was very humiliating.
-------------------- "I'm nigh-invulnerable when I'm blasting!" Mel Gibson, X-Men
Registered: Aug 1999
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Yeah well I don't want to speculate in that beforehand, I prefer to just let it roll over me as unawares as possible, like a moose stampede. *slurp*
-------------------- "I'm nigh-invulnerable when I'm blasting!" Mel Gibson, X-Men
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NeitherJediNorSith
Ex-Member
posted
quote:Nim: He beat both Knights by the numbers and wasted almost no energy other than what was needed, although he seemed fatigued after.
I always assumed that this look of fatigue tied in with the fact that he just injured Palpatine's prize pet. It had to be done, but perhaps we was mentally recoiled as if to say, "Oh crap." He immediately turned to face Yoda with seemingly no remnants of exhaustion. Whether or not Dooku knows Palpatine's true intentions with Anakin I cannot even say.
quote:Nim: One can debate the level of force mastery in different characters to death (it's mostly highly relative and subjective) but Mace Windu has been stated and shown as being the best with a lightsaber and overall strongest Jedi human.
Sorry for any confusion. The comment I made about neglecting Mace had to do with your comment about Dooku being the mightiest human Jedi. I personally feel that Mace holds this title, but only because of moot canon details leaked out by the filmmakers about Mace being unparalleled by anyone but Yoda (though they have since added the fact that only Yoda and Dooku have ever been able to best him in a saber spar).
quote:Nim: I think he [Mace] could take Maul, Vader or Dooku in a fair fight (without Deus Ex Machinas from the sithies).
I agree.
quote:Nim: Anakin was never anything but a pawn under Palpatine, especially not as Vader.
I agree. To further elaborate what I meant, I feel that Dooku sees Anakin as a pawn under Palpatine, but he might actually be foolish enough to see himself as Palpatine's equal and or near equal. He may therefore assume that Palpatine has no desire to replace him with Anakin. Maybe he does and he's ok with it. Once again I do not know for sure.
quote:Nim: They can, however, learn how to repel such an attack directed towards them, and I'm not just talking about Kenobi's brilliant absorption in early Dooku-brawl.
If one can use the Force to generate such things, it only logically implies that they can use said Force to counter these elements/attacks. Some sort of energy force field or telekinetic deflection would be viable. I am reminded of the opening sequence to a video game called "Mortal Kombat: Deception." A character named Raiden is fighting two sorcerers. He is a "thunder god" and he can produce electricity at will. He, at one point in the battle, deflects a projectile using a sort of energy/electricity shield. The effect is very well presented and eye-pleasing. I often envision Jedi doing similar things.
quote:Nim: Maul's Force Pushing of Kenobi into the pit, though, shows that a Jedi caught off-guard has little defense if he hasn't thought two steps ahead.
I once read on the official site that Maul was able to do this because Kenobi was angry and impulsive. This slightly tapped him into the darkside which allowed Maul to use a force push.
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Or because Kenobi was relativly inexperienced when he fought Maul. (Maul himself would have been a relative rookie: it's VERY unlikely he'd ever fought a Jedi before Ep.I)
Kenobi is not suprised to see the ol' "Darkfore Lightening" (I always think of "Grease Lightening" when I see that typed) used against him: Mabye he'd fought someone using it before or -possibly- Jedis are specifically trained to both use and repel force-generated electrical attacks.
I'd think that a handy ability to use agaiinst droids (no Darkforce required there- they aren't officially "alive").
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
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Saltah'na
Chinese Canadian, or 75% Commie Bastard.
Member # 33
posted
quote:Originally posted by Jim NCC1701A: You guys are missing the glaringly bleeding obvious
Boda Fett will be the one to kill Mace. Fits in with the whole "Revenge' of the title. Sure, Fett ain't a Sith but Mace did kill his father.
And Boba got accidently clocked by Han in ROTJ.
-------------------- "And slowly, you come to realize, it's all as it should be, you can only do so much. If you're game enough, you could place your trust in me. For the love of life, there's a tradeoff, we could lose it all but we'll go down fighting...." - David Sylvian FreeSpace 2, the greatest space sim of all time, now remastered!
Registered: Mar 1999
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Because Han's dad was killed by Boba Fett.....yeah! That's it! The galaxy is really that small!
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
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NeitherJediNorSith
Ex-Member
posted
quote:Or because Kenobi was relativly inexperienced when he fought Maul. (Maul himself would have been a relative rookie: it's VERY unlikely he'd ever fought a Jedi before Ep.I)
He's fought many many enemies and he's even saber sparred with Palpatine. The excerpt that I read said that he attacked Palpatine with all of his might and anger, and that he actually almost bested him for a brief moment. The novelization of Ep1 also states that Maul had reached the peek of his abilities. He was the best he could ever be, he wasn't going to get better. That suddenly made me see Maul as very pathetic whereas I used to think he was very amazing. Yes, Obi-Wan was inexperienced when he fought Maul. He was still a padawan. They allowed him to take on the rank of Knight because the battle with a Sith substituted the trials. Who was better at the time? I feel that Maul was marginally better in terms of skill, but definitely not with heart. Obi has only grown since then. Obi-Wan at the end of Ep2 could defeat Maul from Ep1, no contest. Anyway, your comment rings some truth. However, I literally read on the official site that Obi-Wan's anger tapped into the dark side just a tab bit and that allowed Maul to sneek in a force maneuver.
quote:Mabye he'd fought someone using it before or -possibly- Jedis are specifically trained to both use and repel force-generated electrical attacks.
I doubt it's a secret. All Jedi probably know about it in theory (at the very least). I'm assuming you must be quite powerful and skilled to utilize it. You'll note that even though he countered it, he was seemingly scared right after Dooku zapped Anakin.
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quote:He's fought many many enemies and he's even saber sparred with Palpatine.
Well that's from the magazines, I'm not so sure they are canon, it's a grey area. Taking out Qui-Gon Jinn was no small feat, though. Maul's technical and tactical skills were impeccable. In fact, they made him so good that they had to insert a last-minute Kenobi-"TaDa!!" that he had to pretend to be surprised by to kill his character off. In real life, Ray Park would probably beat Ewan McGregor or perhaps even Ian McDiarmid, unless Ian had a powermod.
quote:Obi has only grown since then. Obi-Wan at the end of Ep2 could defeat Maul from Ep1, no contest.
What do you base that on? I think Qui-Gon would beat Geonosis-Kenobi, and Qui-Gon was beaten by Maul. But this is all conjecture.
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