posted
Placeholder as usual. I'm posting now because the preview, which I just watched, contains a MAJOR tech point we'll be having fun with:
In the preview, we see Enterprise... ENTERING THE ATMOSPHERE AND DOGFIGHTING OVER NEW YORK. Now, there's absolutely nothing that says that starships CAN'T do atmospheric operations like this - it's the LANDING that's been the problem for the most part. Plus of course, we've seen Voyager do it plenty, Defiant fly in the uber-pressure of a gas giant, and the TOS Enterprise has been in the atmosphere too (albeit under considerable stress). However, we've been led to believe for years that unless designed to do so, starships generally aren't meant for significant atmospheric maneuvering. I'm looking forward to figuring THIS one out.
Also, the preview shows the forward ventral phase cannons deploying not from the usual hatches just above the torpedo ports, but from the identical hatches closer to the deflector. This lends credence to my pet theory that while Enterprise only has so many phase cannons, they are able to travel around the ship on rails or something, and quickly deploy from the most convenient hatch for firing. This explains lots of the often confusing emission points we've seen over the years.
[On the flip side, another shot shows the phase cannons firing from apparently a window and the main deflector. You got me on those - same as when we saw Enterprise fire from the dorsal power transfer junction greeblies in "Shockwave Part II".]
posted
I'm pretty sure 200+ meter long spacecraft are not meant to go into low-altitude dogfights with WW2 fightercraft above New York.
Never mind the sheer aerodynamical impossibilities (remember, Earth has only very limited experimental forcefield tech). Anyone equipped with matter/antimatter warheads and energy weapons does not need to go into these sorts of fights.
Wouldn't it be a great idea if Star Trek decided to donate half it's VFX budget to charity and actually focus on a plot, instead of ludicrous scenes like these?
posted
The scene looked fun and exciting, and your going into way too much depth. Scenes like this kick ass, and they - and star trek in general - wasn�t meant to be criticized as deeply as you are. No one cares about the aerodynamically challenged ship.
The plot is fine. Visual Effects like these bring in viewers and increase ratings, which generally leads to more profit.
You have to realize that this is science fiction and not some technically accurate reality. Technical impossibilities like this have existed in Star Trek since the very beginning. You are going to have to expect that the technology behind Enterprise's atmospheric flight isnt going to be explained on screen, like most of the technical and scientific wonders of this franchise.
As soon as we all realize this, the more we will enjoy Enterprise.
Registered: Aug 1999
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posted
Advance reviews reveal that when Enterprise inevitably ends up back in 2154, the first indication that everything is okay is that she appears amidst a cluster of friendly ships, including doubtless the Intrepid and/or an Iceland or two. Point being, that this indeed hints that the lack of resistance from the Earthers at the end of last season is probably a result of time travelling interference.
So, what? Reed and company turn right around after destroying the Xindi weapon and not bother to even say hello to everyone there. I'm banking that while this will never be explained, Daniels may have needed everyone together for them to save the day, and so manipulated time and space (and memory?) such that everyone could get back together on Enterprise and return home.
quote:Originally posted by Wes: The scene looked fun and exciting, and your going into way too much depth. Scenes like this kick ass, and they - and star trek in general - wasn�t meant to be criticized as deeply as you are. No one cares about the aerodynamically challenged ship.
The plot is fine. Visual Effects like these bring in viewers and increase ratings, which generally leads to more profit.
You have to realize that this is science fiction and not some technically accurate reality. Technical impossibilities like this have existed in Star Trek since the very beginning. You are going to have to expect that the technology behind Enterprise's atmospheric flight isnt going to be explained on screen, like most of the technical and scientific wonders of this franchise.
As soon as we all realize this, the more we will enjoy Enterprise.
Science-fiction - generally implies that there's at least some grounding in th real world, is it too much to expect that things are realistic enough to allow suspension of disbelief? Enterprise has shattered that suspension for a lot of viewers. It should not need to rely on pointless FX sequences to draw in more viewers, all that shows is that the show can't stand on it's plot alone - which it can't - and that it needs to draw in the mindless 14yr old demographic who think Ep I had a well thought out plot.
P.S. I was 14 once, a short time ago in a house far, far, down the road; and I recall TNG and DS9 relying on their storylines, character building and good writing; oh well at least I can watch Farsca... Oh sh**"!
-------------------- Garbled, confusing and quite frankly duller than an inflight magazine produced by Air Belgium.
Registered: May 2004
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posted
It wasn't just "several ships" it was a fleet made up of dozens! All the types we've seen before were represented, including some Vulcan designs, and at least one NEW Earth vessel, which looks like a skiff of some kind.
Are we going to get the customary HDTV screencaps for this???
-------------------- The flaws we find most objectionable in others are often those we recognize in ourselves.
Registered: Jun 2001
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posted
Thin, but okay. The whole episode had the rest button looming over it like Enterprise over New York. At the end, everything was basically back to how it SHOULD have ended at the end of the past season, with a GOOD use of the Voyager "Endgame" final shot for a change. Basically, if we'd skipped from the descruction of the sphere straight to the last shot of this episode, we wouldn't have missed anything. Ah well... On the fly notes:
-The opening newsreel was pretty chilling, as I'm sure it was meant to be.
-Vosk doesn't want to give the Nazis their weaponry, as he doesn't trust them. Gee, didn't see THAT happening.
-Apparently, the flashpoint of the timeline change occured when someone assassinated Lenin, thus allowing Hitler to gain more power after the Great War. I'm wondering how this worked - if the Soviet revolution didn't happen, wouldn't the Russians of the time helped them end WWI a whole lot faster?
-MACOs! They're still there. Lee, you're up - they're not home quite yet.
-Hm.. When beaming down, Archer and the two MACOs appeared simultaneously. But beaming UP, Trip and Mayweather diappeared one a little after the other.
-Vosk is from the 29th century! His raison d'etre is that everyone ELSE is interfering with time, so why shouldn't he... Vosk's gang has encountered the Suliban faction in the TCW; one has to wonder what's been going on in the TCW that we're not seeing, or why no other factions are trying to interfere here.
-When Silik impersonates Trip, he takes the man's clothing. But when they capture him, somehow he's got his usual outfit back. I guess it's still mimetic...
-When Vosk and Archer don't agree to join forces, the former fires a nifty rail-mounted plasma cannon at the ship. it's enough to seriously damage Enterprise, but not enough for her to move in "point blank" to destroy the facility once the shields are down, which we'll be discussing shortly.
-The gate our heroes smash through looks a little out of place. Have we seen it before?
-Given how little problem Archer has taking a phase pistol along with him, I wonder how tough it would have been to bring along a bulletproof vest. There'd be plenty of slugs flying around, and he knew it.
-Enterprise makes little fuss about flying around to smash Nazi warplanes and installations. The only real reason given is that the targetting array is down, so they have to get close - really close! - to make an accurate attack.
-Ionization from re-entry prevents communication in the 22nd century just like it does today, apparently.
-For ehat it's worth, the images of Enterprising dueling with Stukas are REALLY FRICKING COOL.
-The post-climax diatribe between Archer and Daniels is reminiscent of the holographic stuff he's shown before. There are plenty of images floating around in the background, going from stock WWII footage through the Clinton adminstration, 9/11, and the launch of Enterprise to Archer running out of the burning core of teh Xindi weapon. Archer demands that Daniels leave him alone, and he readily agrees - looks like it's over, at least on the 22nd century front.
-Okay, the "dozens of ships" seen in the final shot will take an HDTV screenshot and a lot of time to figure out. However, we do see a couple of Vulcan ships (the newer ones; doesn't ANYONE use the originals anymore?), two Icelands, the Intrepid (including a good ventral fiew AT LAST!), the science ship from "Regeneration", and many more from various races. There's one spiffy new ship, the one that flies over Enterprise as the fleet turns to escort her home. It sure looks Earthy...
posted
Except that, y'know, Starfleet Academy was founded in MMCLXI...
-------------------- “Those people who think they know everything are a great annoyance to those of us who do.” — Isaac Asimov Star Trek Minutiae | Memory Alpha
Registered: Nov 2000
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posted
I just realized, they where using transporters BECAUSE they ran out of shuttles.. Nice to see a nod to reality.
Registered: Nov 2002
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posted
This would've been much better as a one-part "ohmigod look what I have to write my way out of" episode. As it stands, the first part was all setup for this, and while there was some amount of payoff it wasn't that engrossing.
Silik, having been thrown into the bulkhead with Archer's hand around his neck, points out that Archer's changed. Silik also has the lines about humanity not being as pacifist as he previously believed. In other words, Silik seemed to get all the good, important, not-necessarily-the-plot lines.
But, overall, there wasn't really a "bottom" to the show. It was never personal . . . just another day at the office in the Trek universe, and one that didn't come out all that interesting. On the one hand, everyone took the situation too seriously . . . I mean, you've just saved Earth, and now you're up against Nazis. It would've been a perfect opportunity to bleep out a Trip "what the fuck?!?" One can also imagine additional eye- or brain-candy . . . say, in the first part, Archer thinking for some reason that America needed Enterprise's assistance, so Archer takes out the Bismarck, or kills Hitler just to do it, or what-have-you, before focusing on the aliens. But, more to the point of the bottom of the show, this would've been a prime opportunity for Archer to be forced to examine himself and his actions against the Xindi or the guys from "Damage" in the context of the Nazis. Not to say he's been gassing Jews or something, but there's still a lot that could've been done with that concept.
As for the flight over New York . . . yeah, that was just helluva cool, no doubt about it. I think the shot of the mobster seeing the planes overhead would've been better had it been a shot of the guy seeing Enterprise soar overhead, though of course it wasn't written for the right moment.
The ship dropping into the atmosphere, though doable thanks to the precedent of gas giants, is still quite jarring. The other examples can be though of as mere rocketry, but in this case the ship, with warp engines and maneuvering thrusters already described as damaged and without the ability to use shields as any sort of aerodynamic surface, was simply flying at low-speed. The ship is most assuredly not a lifting-body design, and given that her mass ought to be somewhere above half a million metric tons, the whole idea is just a bit wonky.
Other errata:
1. The ship survived re-entry . . . er, entry . . . with all those holes in the hull. While there are certainly ways to offset the need of ballistic re-entry that modern spacecraft have to use, most would take more time. There wasn't much time available, so it would be interesting to try to figure out what sort of heat and stress the ship faced.
2. There was no reason to use torpedoes against the facility. Given the sub-kiloton blast, the weapons had to have been set for tickle. And it's worse that two were used.
2a. Now that Enterprise has returned to Earth, it should be a simple thing to count the number of torpedoes used after her departure from Earth. I bet it's more than Voyager supposedly had in the Delta Quadrant when she got there. One thing that might also be interesting would be to see how many were 'wasted' in low-yield endeavours.
2b. A torpedo on a higher yield detonated anywhere near the fighters would've knocked the lot of them out of the sky.
3. Though the targeting sensors being offline was just an excuse for the New York flight, there's still little excuse for the 50/50 or so missing of the fighters. There's gotta be some sort of backup system, because otherwise the targeting sensors being out leaves the ship a sitting duck against any spaceborne adversary worth his salt. Then again, Voyager did something similar on the Vaadwuar homeworld, so whatever.
More to come.
-------------------- . . . ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.
quote:Originally posted by MinutiaeMan: Except that, y'know, Starfleet Academy was founded in MMCLXI...
Yep, caught that one on O'Reilly's diploma too... So, what now, we suppose there was an Earth Starfleet Academy, like there was an Earth Starfleet before a Federation Starfleet, or what?
And I still stand by my original point regarding the Stukas... they're too old a model, even for being what the Germans trusted Vosk to provide him with...
Regarding science fiction and believability, well, if there's a difference between fantasy and science fiction, it's that the latter at least attempts to make itself look/sound believable.
PS: Hey, and Farscape is coming back this sunday and monday as a 4-hour miniseries, I believe.
Registered: Feb 2004
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posted
The O'Reilly thing could have been a good opportunity to write Cutler out of the show, and give her a little tribute.
Stukas being too old? I think that the timeline mucking could have caused any number of things to show up earlier or later in the war. Or, the Nazis could have been loathe to give Vosk their top-of-the-line fighter-bombers to play with, given that he'd shown few results to that point.
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