posted
I can understand why you might pose this question. But I don't think that there is a connection between V'ger/Decker and the Borg.
Remember that for some unfathomable reason the V'ger/Decker hybrid became a shimmering light like the non-caporeal Medusans, Companion, or Organians at the end of TMP. So I guess they were trying to convey that it became a "higher form" of life that was pure energy. You know how they loved to have "advanced" alien species who had no bodies in the orignal series. Ewww physical bodies, how base and primitive.
"Eww the body, I have no time for your flatulents and orgasms."
Robin Williams as King of the Moon in The Adventures of Baron Munchausen
I don't think Spock meant that the next step in our evolution was an organic/computer hybrid like the Borg.
Also, V'ger, because it was improved by the planet populated by living machines, also had the prejudice that carbon-based units (life as we know it) are not true lifeforms, so I don't think it would be interested in joining with its creator to create a cybernetic being.
The Borg, IMHO, are a really a twisted spin on the Bynars and are really about the angst some people feel about the inhumanizing effects of prosthetics and computer technology on human beings. The original species who began the Borg did it to themselves.
Its the same lame question "Is a human being with prosthetic parts still a human being? Or is this person starting to lose his soul/humanity and become a cold and heartless machine? How much flesh do we need to lose before we are no longer human and become cold and calculating?" A theme I think that was already beaten to death by the Roger Korby character in the TOS episode "What Are Little Girls Made Of." (An idea that I do not subscribe to by the way.)
V'ger would probably have reduced the Borg it encountered to "data patterns" and then go on its merry way.
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-------------------- Yes, you're despicable, and... and picable... and... and you're definitely, definitely despicable. How a person can get so despicable in one lifetime is beyond me. It isn't as though I haven't met a lot of people. Goodness knows it isn't that. It isn't just that... it isn't... it's... it's despicable.
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Besides, the philosiphies don't match. Cybermen have eliminated all the organics from their bodies to be more efficient but retained their indivuality and emotions. And some of them were quite mean.
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
Registered: Aug 2002
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posted
If you'd just take your meds, you would'nt have that problem.
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
Registered: Aug 2002
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quote:Originally posted by Saltah'na: Actually, it has been speculated by Gene Roddenberry himself that Voyager 6 met the Borg first.
I believe that the original attribution of the Borg and GR was that Voy6 may have met the species that spawned (?) the Borg, i.e. a machine intelligence.
IOW, can anyone speculate as how to disprove this? Maybe the Borg and V'Ger are related as off-shoot cousins.
Registered: Jan 2003
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quote:Originally posted by Jason Abbadon: Borg are less expensive to kill.
Besides, the philosiphies don't match. Cybermen have eliminated all the organics from their bodies to be more efficient but retained their indivuality and emotions. And some of them were quite mean.
True. But I recall there was the implication that they started off as human, and then replaced more and more of the organic with machine, until eventually there was nothing human(oid) left. So they are just further along the chain than the Borg.
And they seemed to vary in how individual they were. Usually depending on whether there was a "boss" Cyberman standing around.
As for the above theory, it could be disproved by the fact that the Borg never originated from a machine intelligence. They were humanoids who became machines.
-------------------- Yes, you're despicable, and... and picable... and... and you're definitely, definitely despicable. How a person can get so despicable in one lifetime is beyond me. It isn't as though I haven't met a lot of people. Goodness knows it isn't that. It isn't just that... it isn't... it's... it's despicable.
Registered: Mar 1999
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posted
The first Borg may well have been sentient machines that assimilated orgainic organisms as raw material during a time of rescourse scarcity. tHe Borg Queen's comment of "We used to be just like the," (referring to humans)could mean this as well as meaning that Borg started out organic.
Cybermen's indivualality may have been over-ridden by their commander whenever he was in a certain proximity as a control element. Makes sense: who needs a "Commander Shelby" Cyberman?
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
Registered: Aug 2002
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posted
I know it's an older thread, but I've been out of the loop for a while and am getting caught up.
First of all, V'Ger and the living machines that beefed it up couldn't have had anything to do with the Borg, as V'Ger and the living machines (is it me, or is that a good name for a techno group?) didn't regard carbon units as true life forms. As the Borg originated as organic life-forms before permanently grafting themselves to the machine, they would have known carbon units are actual life forms and not a pesky infestation.
Second, I hate how the Borg have been treated ever since "Q Who?". Consistency, what? They took a cool premise and flushed it. Worse, they flushed it with no regard to continuity.
And last (for this post), Cybermen = Cylons.
--Jonah
-------------------- "That's what I like about these high school girls, I keep getting older, they stay the same age."
--David "Woody" Wooderson, Dazed and Confused
Registered: Feb 2001
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posted
Actually Cybermen were far far tougher than Cylons.
I think the Borg were great....right up untill they introduced the Queen. Suddenly a instoppable alien threat that defied human emotional responses or errors made from emotions is controlled by this drama-queen? I would have LOVED the idea if they has simply said she was a federation captain assimilated to replace Loqutus. That way Picard would be torn about killing her and the Borg would have remained scary. I won't even get into he petty comedy that was Voyager's queen.....
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
Registered: Aug 2002
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Well the beginning of the end started with "I, Borg", the coffin was fashioned in "Descent", and the final nail was driven home in "Star Trek: First Contact." Voyager just beat the dead body.
Although I love Alice Krige's performance, the Borg Queen idea is so... un-Borg-like. I thought it was better to think of them like the Denevan neural parasites. Each Borg was like a cell of a much larger being. Oh well, lose a drone here and there. No big deal. To the Borg it's like losing skin cells or a single hair. Lose a cube, well that smarts a bit, but we'll soon get over it. We will soon assimilate replacements.
By the way, I think that they need to have Alice Krige come back to "Star Trek". Not as the Borg Queen, but as another character. I think that she would make a great Romulan. Although whenever I see her, I think of the bedroom scene in the high-rise apartment at the beginning of the movie Ghost Story. Yuck.
Registered: Jun 2003
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posted
Even besides the chronological issues, for V'Ger to have spawned the Borg would've required that V'Ger got dumbed down by the whole Decker thing.
The concept of the machine planet being of the Borg also doesn't work. The only way it could would be if V6 had gone through some sort of temporally-distortive-spatial-anomaly-of-the-week. Then it could've ended up in the past, and encountered a machine planet that later had some sort of fusion with a humanoid species. In the interim, V'Ger had run around learning everything.
-------------------- . . . ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.
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