posted
She did indeed, she was quite attractive back in 1981. But all of that is associated with the putrid flesh scenes in my memory. Rotting dead chick sort of spoils the fantasy.
Registered: Jun 2003
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quote:Originally posted by Guardian 2000: The concept of the machine planet being of the Borg also doesn't work. The only way it could would be if V6 had gone through some sort of temporally-distortive-spatial-anomaly-of-the-week. Then it could've ended up in the past, and encountered a machine planet that later had some sort of fusion with a humanoid species. In the interim, V'Ger had run around learning everything.
I've actually heard that very theory before. I want to say it was in one of the various behind-the-scenes books about Star Trek, tho don't recall for certain.
Registered: Apr 2003
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The premise changed right after "Q Who?". The Borg were one race that modified themselves technologically, and then set out to find more and newer technology to consume. They cared nothing about other races. Borg were still born biologically from the parent race and then modified. There was nothing about transwarp (they were just faster/better than the Enterprise). There was nothing about assimilation, no need for a mouthpiece. "The Best of Both Worlds" was painful for me to watch. The Borg we met in "Q Who?" wouldn't have sent one cube to assimilate Earth. Now that Q had made them aware of the Federation's existence (we can assume something happened to the scout ship poking along the Neutral Zone that prevented them from reporting), they'd just send fifty thousand cubes and obliterate the Federation. "When they come, they'll come in force. They don't do anything piecemeal." Yeah, unless the writers change their tune mid-beat.
And if the air was thin and cold aboard a cube, why in First Contact did an increase in temperature and pressure indicate a Borg presence? *grr* And if they stripped Picard's uniform off him, why were the uniforms of other assimilated crew members simply overgrown with Borg bits? *sigh* The Borg looked much scarier to me back before they got all slimy and stupid. They started off relentless and got more and more brainless. This is their quest for perfection? *shudder*
--Jonah
P.S. Cyberman: "EX-TER-MIN-ATE!" Baltar: "What are your standing instructions for humans?" Centurion: "Extermination." (god, I loved that voice)
-------------------- "That's what I like about these high school girls, I keep getting older, they stay the same age."
--David "Woody" Wooderson, Dazed and Confused
Registered: Feb 2001
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quote:Borg were still born biologically from the parent race and then modified.
Hooray! Someone agrees with me. When I said that Borg reproduce biologically in addition to assimilation, I was immediately shot down and told they were assimilated babies in "Q Who?". I don't know if I believe that the Borg reproduce in utero, but they probably have fetal growth tanks that allow infants to develop.
I think that the Borg changed when some one on the Star Trek writing staff realized "Holy smokes we just signed the death warrant for our characters and the entire Federation. We don't want them to be totally anhilated when the Borg come." We have had suffer the new and improved Borg since then because they started to make them less powerful and more vulnerable. Not much drama if we see 50 or 100 Borg cubes annihale the entire Starfleet in a couple of minutes. Borg appear, Federation dies before commercial break.
At least JMS stayed true to his original concepts for the Vorlon and the Shadows in Babylon 5. The younger races would be toast if either one of these races was interested in conquest or consuming the technology or bodies of other species. Thankfully this was not their motivation and so the cast of Babylon 5 and the rest of the races survived.
The big problem that I have with some of the concepts in Star Trek is that no one thinks past a couple of episodes. They really should have sat down and planned large story arcs or how certain plot developments would affect later episodes. But they didn't, and that's how we get a mess like the Borg Queen and Seven of Nine, among the other continuity problems we have seen over the years.
Registered: Jun 2003
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posted
Huh. Though of course no one really liked, say, "Dark Frontier," I always cast a jaundiced eye at the "Voyager has singlehandedly altered the whole concept!" claim. That happened at the beginning, I said. I'm sure there's someone out there there's a curmudgeon who didn't like "The Best of Both Worlds" for the same reason, I said to myself. Now we need to hear from someone mad that the Borg weren't the insectoid species they were first brainstormed to be.
Note: I am thoroughly pro-curmudgeon. Though "Best of Both Worlds" Borg are much more interesting to me than "Q Who" Borg, so I don't buy this particular argument.
Registered: Mar 1999
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I never said that Voyager altered the whole concept or its exclusively to blame. The TNG producers purposely altered the concept after "Q Who?" so they wouldn't kill everyone and everything in the Federation. The produces of TNG are clearly at fault for sowing the seeds of this one.
In "The Best of Both Worlds", I would think that the Borg would have stopped to assimilate and consume the worlds of the Klingon and Romulan Empires, and of the Federation, that were in their path to Sector 001. I think they travelled to Earth much too quickly. What's the rush? They should have resolved the story in a multiple episode arc instead of a two parter IMHO. Why did they need to assimilate and consume Earth first? Did they want it be a psychological blow so that the other worlds of the Federation would give up something about "primitive cultures are authority driven"?
I think that the attack on Sector 001 by the Borg was piece meal.
Regarding the original insect hive concept, at least the concept of a queen would have worked much better if most of them were insect-like drones.
If you like how the Borg developed in the shows that's fine with me. It's also fine with me if we agree to disagree.
If I held the creative reins I would have steered the stories differently and would have made the Federation's plight much more desperate. I would have entire Federation worlds full of Borg-ified citizens instead of the loss a small colony and Starfleet battlegroup.
Plus I would have had Picard introduce the virus at the end of "I, Borg", otherwise his change of heart makes no sense to me in Star Trek: First Contact. At least Janeway had the fortitude to destroy the transwarp conduit.
Registered: Jun 2003
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posted
As I recall from an interview with Maurice Hurley (producer on part of TNG's first and second seasons), there WAS a Borg "arc" planned. I don't have the article handy any more, but as I recall it went something like this.
2. 2nd Season. Romulan Empire utterly decimated by a SINGLE Borg vessel. Last stand of Romulans destroys the Borg ship.
3. Over course of series, Picard tries to figure out how the Romulans destoyed the Borg before they send another ship and do a similar number on the Federation. Naturally, sooner or later, the Borg show up.
4. Borg are ant-like in that they are a hive and they don't care if they all die achieving their goals, so long as the goals are met.
5. Q plays a recurring part, much as he did in Q Who.
Something like that. I'd have liked that better.
-------------------- "Well, I mean, it's generally understood that, of all of the people in the world, Mike Nelson is the best." -- ULTRA MAGNUS, steadfast in curmudgeon
Registered: Feb 2001
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posted
I would have been content with fewer Romulan stories if it meant better Borg stories. "The Defector" could have very easily been re-written for a Cardassian Legate (yes, I know it was too early for that, but...) and "Face of the Enemy" was pretty bad. "The Enemy" could have been kept pretty much intact, though...
But I've always liked the idea of the Romulans knowing about the Borg far longer than the Federation. Aside from the fact that their sphere of influence pokes out into the shallow Delta Quadrant, the biggest thing I wondered about was why, after hiding behind their borders for fifty years, did they show up to our first encounter after all that time in a warship twice as big as the Federation's biggest Explorer? "Matters more urgent required our absence." If they were dealing with a Borg incursion on the other side of their space, I'd call that urgent.
--Jonah
-------------------- "That's what I like about these high school girls, I keep getting older, they stay the same age."
--David "Woody" Wooderson, Dazed and Confused
Registered: Feb 2001
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posted
I don't know, that line to me kind of sounds like your typical totalitarian press release. "We were very busy in grand and noble enterprises." as code for "We've spent the last half century engaging in some minor wars of expansion in an effort to prop up our ailing command economy." I mean, for example.
Registered: Mar 1999
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posted
And as for the Romulans turning up in a big fuck-off ship...what did you expect them to turn up in? The Federation sent the best ship in the fleet (TM). You'd expect the Romulans to do the same, no?
-------------------- Yes, you're despicable, and... and picable... and... and you're definitely, definitely despicable. How a person can get so despicable in one lifetime is beyond me. It isn't as though I haven't met a lot of people. Goodness knows it isn't that. It isn't just that... it isn't... it's... it's despicable.
Registered: Mar 1999
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posted
Hell no! I'd expect the Romulans to send a scout to test Starfleet. To see if Starfleet would violate the NZ after seeing a (presumably) weaker foe, all the while several Warbirds are lying in wait to cripple and capture Enterprise for it's technological secrets...
I was always a fan of the Romulans having been "kept busy" all those decades by some great foe like the Borg....mabye the Hurq cold be worked into a nice backstory. In the (non-canon, I know)game Invasion, the Hurq had retreated to subspace and return after the USS Sentinel activates a long dormant space vessel containing thousands of Hurq.... Good storyline with great graphics too.
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
Registered: Aug 2002
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quote:Originally posted by Jason Abbadon: Hell no! I'd expect the Romulans to send a scout to test Starfleet. To see if Starfleet would violate the NZ after seeing a (presumably) weaker foe, all the while several Warbirds are lying in wait to cripple and capture Enterprise for it's technological secrets...
You're assuming that the Romulan Empire is in any fit state to wage war at this point. If they really had been fighting the Borg then it probably wasn't. Sending a huge Warbird would be a show of strenght to discourage the Federation from crossing the border, a bluff if you will.
capped
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posted
quote:Originally posted by Jason Abbadon: In the (non-canon, I know)game Invasion, the Hurq had retreated to subspace and return after the USS Sentinel activates a long dormant space vessel containing thousands of Hurq.... Good storyline with great graphics too.
JA, could you describe some more of the game to me? does it jibe with the Hurq seen in the novels "The Left Hand of Destiny" ? and what about the Sentinel? class/ncc?
Registered: Sep 2001
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