During Dominion War 2373-2376 Intrepid Class:95=55 lost Akira Class:150=150 lost Excelsior Class:1500=1500 lost Ambassordor Class:1950=1950 lost Miranda:2250=2250 lost Galaxy Class:750=750 lost Soveriegn:6=4 lost Steamrunner Class:175:175 lost Sabre Class:200=150 lost Defiant Class:4=2 lost Oberth:20=30 lost Nova:400=100 lost =7365 starships left My Guess is that during the War Starfleet lost 50% of its fleet
posted
Fleet size ... always designed to bring out a huge fight
It makes sense for Starfleet to have large numbers of the older classes of starship -- Miranda, Excelsior, Ambassador, and Oberth -- because these ships have been in production in most cases for over a hundred years (and the Ambassador probably at least 30 or 40 -- I'm not sure on the date on that one).
I don't think Starfleet has quite the numbers you give for the newer classes -- Sovereign, Nova, Defiant, etc. I certainly don't think there are 1500 Galaxy-Class ... I'm not certain if this story is true or "canon", but G.R. once said that there were twelve Galaxy-Class starships ... six in service, and six "dismantled" at various points across the Federation, where they could be assembled if needed. I don't think its unreasonable to assume that the Galaxy-Class was designed to be a small production run for a multi-roll starship, and that Starfleet didn't originally plan on building more than the original twelve. However, episodes of Deep Space Nine seem to hint that (if the 6-built, 6-waiting story is true) the Galaxy-Class proved versitile or useful enough to make Starfleet change their minds and continue production.
I sincerely doubt there are that many INTREPID-Class starships in service. I'd be boggled if more than 40 had even been built -- you know, it takes time to build a starship, and if VOYAGER was one of the first production starship off the assembly line, you're assuming a rate of 20-some new ships per year since. I honestly don't think Starfleet has that kind of resources to put out a new class of starship in that short of a time -- which is part of the reason why they rely on older class starships so friggin' much.
The number for the SOVEREIGN-Class is more realistic, so that might be very well. This of course begs the question of why the Enterprise-E -- one of very few of Starfleet's most powerful starship -- was off doing diplomatic missions instead of fighting the Dominion. Oh, well, maybe it was their off-rotation time?
Starfleet's got a hell of a lot more than 14,000 some starships. You've left off a ton of classes -- Renaissance, etc.
My note: all of this is conjecture. Thank you.
The United Federation of Planets consists of 150 member worlds, plus colonies, et al. Assuming that each member world has a population of 1 billion, and then further assuming that Starfleet makes up say 1% of the Federation Population (not an unreasonable assumption considering that from all appearances, Starfleet is the equivilant of the entire Federal gov't and runs EVERYTHING), then Starfleet has about 150 billion people in it. GOD DAMN.
I'd guesstimate Starfleet at having much closer to 40,000+ starships. Hey -- they've got a pretty big area to protect, and keep in mind, the UFP doesn't have borders like nations today do ... there are worlds within the UFP that aren't members, and worlds that are probably pretty far away from others that are members. Imagine if the US was the galaxy, and Maryland, Massachussets, North Carolina and North Dakota made up the Federation. None of those states border each other, so you'd need a lot of ships to protect those planets and the trading ships etc.
------------------ Star Trek Gamma Quadrant Average Rated 6.83 out of 10 Smileys by Fabrux *** "Oh, yes, screw logic, let's go for a theory with no evidence!" -Forum Member Who Shall Be Nameless. 11:48am, Jan. 19th, 2001
posted
There were at least 8 Galaxy class ships visible in one single scene of 'Sacrifice of Angels'. I've counted them myself.
I think that there are about 30-50 Galaxy class ships.
About the Defiant class: Someone asked around about the number of Defiant class ships, after seeing 'Message in a Bottle'. The answer was about 40. So that's a semi-official count on those.
I think the amount of Intrepid class ships are in the dozens at most. And Sovereign class ships, I though it started with 4 of them, but I'm not sure.
------------------ "That's your plan? Wile E. Coyote would come up with a better plan than that!" - Crighton, Farscape.
posted
Er ... forty Defiant-Class? How did people come up with that number? For curiousity's sake, at least. I'd've thought a dozen at most, to be perfectly honest.
------------------ Star Trek Gamma Quadrant Average Rated 6.83 out of 10 Smileys by Fabrux *** "Oh, yes, screw logic, let's go for a theory with no evidence!" -Forum Member Who Shall Be Nameless. 11:48am, Jan. 19th, 2001
posted
At least he's admitting it's "pure guesswork."
Although "guesswork" should be supported by at least SOME on-screen, or even book, information, which I doubt this is, so "pulled out of thin air" or "fanboy dream" would be more apt descriptive phrases.
------------------ "My knowledge and experience far exceeds your own, by, oh, about a BILLION times!" -- Q
posted
Not trying to beat a dying horse here, but if you look at the registry numbers of starships chronologically, you'll see that once a new class of ship is introduced, it doesn't go into major mass production until much later. One might account for this in several ways, such as the engineers needing time to fix all the bugs; preparing ahead for design flaws, etc. That's probably why we saw all those older designs throughout TNG & DS9, and relatively fewer newer designs: They hadn't been mass produced at the time. (Of course, the real reason was that the movie models were all they had at the time to film, but it does make sense.)
With all the problems that the Defiant was speculated as having when it was first built, I'm surprised that there were even the four or five Defiant class ships seen in service.
Basically what I'm saying is that Darkstar's numbers for the amount of newer class ships in service are probably much less than what he guessed.
posted
Hi folks! I'm new here and just thought that I'd add some information that I've found from my internet browsing.
Galaxy-class starships; 12 frames were built with 6 being fully constructed and the others were dismantled and spread across the Federation. 9 Were actually seen in 'Sacrifice of Angels', this comment is repeated on over a dozen web sites, and I counted them myself - originally missed one hiding in the background.
Names for Galaxy's are - USS Galaxy, NX/NCC-70637; USS Enterprise, NCC-1701-D; USS Yamato, NCC-715807; USS Challenger, NCC-71099; USS Odyssey, NCC-71832 & USS Venture, NCC-71854. I guess that these are the first 6 to be constructed. Others (not confirmed & not seen in Star Trek, I think) - USS Kludy, NCC-71095; USS Trinculo, NCC-71867; USS Vel'dna, NCC-72406; USS Courageous, NCC-72579; & USS Indomitable, NCC-73462. I have not seen these and they've only been mentioned in one web site.
Intrepid-class starships; USS Intrepid, NX/NCC-74600; USS Voyager, NCC-74656; USS Bellerephon, NCC-74762 & USS Saratoga. The Saratoga has yet to be given a negistry number & has not been seen (I think).
Estimate on the Nova-class is a bit big, I think anyway, as I think the ship looks like a scaled-down version of the Sovereign-class, so I'd guess (note the word 'guess' ) at a figure between 12 and 60 (ish).
Also, I feel that the size of the fleet is a bit big - 14,000+ vessels? Maybe if you were to include transports & freighters, but not just starships. I'd agree with the www.ditl.org site's estimate of about 9,000 - much more manageable considering the limited resources & people involved & the lifespan of the ships.
Hope this helps! I shall add more if requested or if I have any info that helps clarify any future discussions! Or you can email me and I'd be happy to reply!
posted
Others (not confirmed & not seen in Star Trek, I think) - USS Kludy, NCC-71095; USS Trinculo, NCC-71867; USS Vel'dna, NCC-72406; USS Courageous, NCC-72579; & USS Indomitable, NCC-73462. I have not seen these and they've only been mentioned in one web site.
Then they're not canon. If we added up all the fictional Galaxy Classes, we'd have more than the number of ships in the fleet. USS MANTRAIN NCC-77039. There, I made one up. Doesn't mean it's real.
The Saratoga has yet to be given a negistry number & has not been seen (I think).
Same as above. It's irrelevant.
Darkstar: Fickle with our 'Fuck You to Fucking Flare's, are we?
------------------ "Instructed by history and reflection, Julian was persuaded that, if the diseases of the body may sometimes be cured by salutary violence, neither steel nor fire can eradicate the erroneous opinions of the mind."
-Edward Gibbons, The Decline and Fall of The Roman Empire.
posted
Well since you chose to come back in such a unique way, why don't you leave just as fast and uniquely. While I didn't believe that you were treated as fairly as you probably should have been at this point I don't care now. You are an immature individual who needs to do a lot of growing up. So as of this moment I don't think Flare wants you so please make your exit and come back when you've grown some.
------------------ God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the weaponry to make the difference.
posted
(Disregarding the Darkstar argument...) While there may be little to no basis for those numbers, (Darkstar himself called the entire thing conjectural), he brought up a very interesting topic, one which has bugged me for quite some time.
Now, I'm a little bit torn. I tend to think 14,000 is a bit high, even though it would be a designer/engineer's dream. How would you name all of those ships?! I mean, hundreds of vessels in a class, it is almost unfathomable to my limited thinking. I think perhaps somewhere more along 10,000, maybe 11,000, is a bit more reasonable, if we're dealing with starships only.
Ultra Magnus: He's new, don't jump down his throat for God's sake! You'll scare him away!
P.S., this message has been edited, oh, say 3 billion times and this is the final edit. I just read the OTHER thread by Darkstar. For goodness sake! THAT was uncalled for. I am thoroughly disgusted.
[This message has been edited by Daniel (edited April 06, 2001).]
[This message has been edited by Daniel (edited April 06, 2001).]
[This message has been edited by Daniel (edited April 06, 2001).]
posted
akb1979: Don't take any offence, if my canonazi ways brought discomfort to your side, perhaps you should join us. I just dislike misinformation when it comes to things that are true and things which are not.
Welcome to the nerdiest place on earth. Next to LAN parties, that is.
------------------ "Instructed by history and reflection, Julian was persuaded that, if the diseases of the body may sometimes be cured by salutary violence, neither steel nor fire can eradicate the erroneous opinions of the mind."
-Edward Gibbons, The Decline and Fall of The Roman Empire.
posted
Daniel: Have you never met Darkstar? And are you disgstuted at us or darkstar?
Assuming the GR figure for Galaxy-class ships is correct, wehave 12 ships. out of that, the Enterprise, Yamoto, and Oddesey have been destroyed. That leaves nine. I highly doubt that the 9 ships seen in ONE shot of "Scrifice of Angels" is ALL the galaxy-class ships out there. Starfleet must have built more by now.
------------------ You know, when Comedy Central asked us to do a Thanksgiving episode, the first thought that went through my mind was, "Boy, I'd like to have sex with Jennifer Aniston." -Trey Parker, co-creator of South Park
posted
Did anyone besides me notice that Darkstar's only post in this thread was made ... two months ago?
akb1979 dragged it from the old post file. And welcome to Flare, akb1979.
------------------ Star Trek Gamma Quadrant Average Rated 8.32 out of 10 Smileys by Fabrux (with seven eps posted) *** "Oh, yes, screw logic, let's go for a theory with no evidence!" -Omega 11:48am, Jan. 19th, 2001
posted
BTW, if memory serves, the Trinculo was one of those names put on the model for show at conventions...
------------------ "I write messages on money. It's my own form of social protest. A letter printed on paper that no one will destroy. Passed indiscriminantly across race, class, and gender lines and written in the blood that keeps the beast alive A quiet little hijacking on the way to the checkout counter. and a federal crime. I hope that someone will find my message one day when they really need it. Like I do." -Rage against the Machine
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