posted
Now, as we ALL know, we've all got a lot of strong opinions on both sides of the gun issue. Well, I know I'm correct here, but I won't hold it against the conservative-minded here (an attempt at humor, here).
Let's try something new. Instead of throwing statistics and screaming at each other ... why don't we discuss ways we can make our society more safe through our favorite subject I'm sure -- GUN CONTROL!
What works? What doesn't work? Why do some European countries have very few gun related incidents (both those which arm every citizen and those which ban ownership of the things?)
WHAT DOES THE NEXT ADMINISTRATION OF THIS VERY FUCKED UP COUNTRY (that is, the US of A) HAVE TO DO TO MAKE SURE THAT YOU AND I (in the very general sense) DON'T GET BLOWN AWAY BY SOME TRIGGER HAPPY FOOL?
Shall we begin?
------------------ "[Smith] ran on an agenda that was revolutionary for his time -- a 45 cent minimum wage, limiting the workweek to six days, building a bridge to the 1930's -- and I want to say it's quite a tribute to Al Smith that Governor Bush has adopted the same agenda." - Al Gore
posted
Of course, this may sound crazy, but maybe guns aren't the problem. Maybe they're just one of the symptoms.
The countries which have fewer gun related incidents might do that because their society isn't so fucked up that people feel the need to declare that they love a bisexual dwarf infront of their husband on national TV, a society full of people so desperate to place blame (and not accept responsibilty) that they declare harmless cartoons involving a little yellow electric mouse evil and responsible for everything that's wrong in the world, a society that's so completely screwed that kids walk into their own schools and start murdering their fellow pupils.
Hey, I know, let's blame music, and TV! Cause it can't be the parents who refuse to discipline their kids, that don't teach them the difference between right and wrong, who treat them like shit; they can't possibly be what's wrong.
------------------ "If every vampire who said he was at the Crucifixion was actually there it would've been like Woodstock. I was at Woodstock. I fed off a flower person and I spent six hours watching my hand move." - Spike, BtVS
posted
The Defiant is 170m. It says so in the encyclopedia.
------------------ "Hockey is a sport for white men. Basketball is a sport for black men. Golf is a sport for white men dressed like black pimps." - Tiger Woods
Now since laws affecting gun ownership nearly by definition don't affect criminals, you have to take into account that the legislation only affects law-abiding citizens. You'll always have criminals with guns, short of eliminating ALL of them, so the optimal solution is to let any law-abiding citizen own a gun, but keep as many out of the hands of children and criminals as possible. Enforcing the laws that already exist would be a good place to start. They include instant background checks, and disallowing the sale of firearms to anyone with a criminal record. Good start. Then there's Bush's plan to raise the age at which one can own a gun to 21. Also good.
Obviously, there's not much you can do to completely eliminate the chance of running into a nut with a gun (AKA a criminal). Your best bet is to be able to defend yourself if you do.
------------------ Pilot: You're sure they were Americans, eh? Fraser: They were all wearing new boots, they were driving a Jeep Wrangler, and they carried big guns. Pilot: Americans it is. - "due South"
Shik
Starship database: completed; History of Starfleet: done; website: probably never
Member # 343
posted
"I never saw an instance of one or two disputants convincing the other by argument." --Thomas Jefferson
------------------ "Two parts slush...one part solid ice...one part hard-packed snow...a dash of assorted debris...sculpt into sphere, and serve at high velocity without warning." --Calvin
posted
Well, one way of keeping guns out of the hands of criminals is to increase the penalty on straw purchases.
One way to do that? If your gun is stolen, you have to pay a steep fine and possibly risk jail time. Extreme, I know, but lots of people buy guns then give or sell it to someone else and report it stolen. With these kind of penalties, people would be VERY careful about where their guns were at all times. And this way, a person could only do a straw-purchase one time: and then s/he'd NEVER be allowed to purchase any type of firearm again...
------------------ "[Smith] ran on an agenda that was revolutionary for his time -- a 45 cent minimum wage, limiting the workweek to six days, building a bridge to the 1930's -- and I want to say it's quite a tribute to Al Smith that Governor Bush has adopted the same agenda." - Al Gore
posted
That's be unenforceable, I suspect.You're essentially committing the police to strict monitoring of all gun sales (which is no bad thing) and investigating every theft - the gun's gone, how do you prove it was stolen? Out goes innocent until proven guilty. But I know where you're coming from.
Someone's gonna haveta explain this Defiant thing to me...
------------------ "So put your hands down my pants and I'll bet you'll feel nuts"
posted
Hmmm, you could still go with the fine, I suspect. A small price to pay for having lost a killing weapon. Perhaps if they notice a pattern of gun thefts, then an arrest could be made ...
------------------ Friends Don't Let Friends Vote Republican *** Gore/Lieberman 2000 - a step forward into the new millennia
posted
"Well, one way of keeping guns out of the hands of criminals is to increase the penalty on straw purchases."
And what of the people who's guns really ARE stolen? Should they have no right to defend themselves because of their bad luck? Some statistics might be nice...
Although perhaps reporting your gun stolen, say, twice in six months would be sufficient cause to start an investigation. But certainly not disarmament without being convicted of a crime.
And shouldn't that .sig be "new millenium"? "Millenia" is plural.
------------------ Pilot: You're sure they were Americans, eh? Fraser: They were all wearing new boots, they were driving a Jeep Wrangler, and they carried big guns. Pilot: Americans it is. - "due South"
[This message has been edited by Omega (edited October 26, 2000).]
posted
We also need to look at other places to get weapons: Greedy Supply and Armory NCOs and officers in the military selling pistols to MANPADS(SAMs). Crooked cops selling weapons out of the confiscated bins. Smugglers that get these same weapons from overseas sources.
Stiffer penalties would have to be directed at these people to control weapons in this country.
To police up the problem that we have here in the US I have a feeling that a lot of people are going to have law suits against the Government. The law abiding citizens are going to have to deal with some things that we won't want to deal with.
------------------ Stupid bastards and religious freaks, so safe in their castle keeps...
posted
Most of these problems would dry up if we simply enforced the existing laws.
In some states, using a gun in a crime tacks a manditory 5 YEARS on your sentence, no matter what the crime... but it's very rarely enforced.
Richmond, Virginia just started enforcing that and similar laws a few years ago, and from what I hear, crime has dropped upwards of 40% above and beyond the nationwide drop.
Oh, get this. The year with the record number of school shootings/firearms incidents?
1993. Nationwide, It's actually on the decline, despite Columbine and the media blitz. Difference? Those kids was white.
------------------ "Ed Gruberman, you fail to grasp Ty Kwan Leap. Approach me, that you might see." -- The Master
True, on laws, there are several laws of all types that don't get enforced. There are also laws that get enforced that a lame by todays standards. Like the guy that the police arrested here in Michgan for cussing in public, in front of women and children really. The cop shouldn't have been that bored. ------------------ Stupid bastards and religious freaks, so safe in their castle keeps...
[This message has been edited by Ritten (edited October 26, 2000).]
------------------ Pilot: You're sure they were Americans, eh? Fraser: They were all wearing new boots, they were driving a Jeep Wrangler, and they carried big guns. Pilot: Americans it is. - "due South"
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