posted
OK, I just watched Insurrection again yesterday, and I have some qualms that I think need to be addressed by the Star Trek team before they go into Star Trek X.
Basically:
A new director - JF is good, but Insurrection looked flat and dull... The sets looked just so... underlit and dull and we saw NOTHING of the Bridge - it actually looked quite disgusting... plain boring - lights dull - hardly any unique views of the Bridge or Engineering - except to close in on Riker or the Trill officer - nothin like First Contact - the bridge - and the whole ship in First contact seemed - futuristic and wonderous - yet the Bridge in Insurrection - seemed like just another room - with the light on.
They have to can Lt. Daniels as the Security/Tac officer - he is COMPLETELY boring - even more boring that Lt. George Primmin from DS9's "Move Along Home".
We need a new alien in there I think. The Trill officer again was BORING! The Joystick HAS to never appear on screen EVER again... errgh. Please fix up the departments sitting at the Conn and Ops.
Effects - the company who did the Effects in Insurrection - did a CRAP job. The Enterprise looked dinky and dull. The Atmospheric ship flights looked horribly matted... i.e. the drones and the Son'a ships. etc.
The CGI - basically looked lifeless and dull - I don't know if it was too RED being in the Briar patch - but it just didn't look as 'epic' as effects for past movies had. The Enterprise is a Big ship - it shouldn't be dipping all over the place and being thrown about like a smaller ship would.
Trek effects have been pretty static and dull in the last 3 movies. The Undiscovered Country had beautiful ship shots... Even "Galaxy Quest" had better ship effects than Insurrection. Maybe its CGI - it's not up to scratch yet? In First Contact and Insurrection - we never had any beautiful sweeping shots - that lasted for too long. Even the first appearance of the Enterprise E was too quick. Its as if they don't want you to get a focus on the ship to quickly - which is frustrating.
There has to be a good balance between soundstage and on location filming - Insurrection just had TOO much - out door stuff... First Contact probably did have a nice balance.
What is with the Data/Picard vs. The rest? Have some more character pairings - like good ole TNG.
The Soundtrack - Jerry Goldsmith did a fantastic job with First Contact - Insurrection though was just a rehash - a poor rehash. The soundtrack is uninspiring and tinny - and what is with all that synth!?! Its like his instrument du jour! We need a fresh perspective on the Soundtrack - and there are a lot of great composers out there.
Over all the next TNG movie has to look... like it did in the earlier movies and First Contact - futuristic sharp - fresh and wonderous - not slow, washed out and pedestrian.
You wanted to DREAM about being in space after seeing this film... not think - it could be a film set anywhere and in any situation. It has to provoke the mind to think of Trek as having a 'grand scheme' of exploration? of strange new worlds? of the 24th century? of WONDER... not cheap and nasty, looks, laughs and soundtracks.
Andrew
P.S. one thing i'll give Insurrection - was its powerful sound effects - some of those weapons firing - sounded like they'd rip you to shreds.
Andrew
------------------ "This is cooling, faster than I can..." Tori Amos "Cooling"
posted
I think you're placing too much blame on Frakes. He was the director, not set designer. It doesn't make since to say First Contact was great and Insurrection sucks and then blame it on Frakes because he did both. Set designs and lighting are something else completely.
The CGI: I agree, there weren't a lot of visual shots of the Enterprise-E, I never got a good look at it in FC.. had to wait till the 3rd Encyclopedia came before I could. As far as the CGI production goes, who did the CGI's of ships on Babylon 5? Personally I think they did a great job. Sure you could look at them today and say it could be better, but at the time it was made it was still fairly new.
Picard and Data: True... why is it that the last 3 TNG movies are about Picard and Data? If this is the last TNG movie, why the rumors on killing Data? Spiner says he's too old to play Data, but if after this there aren't going to be anymore movies it seems pointless to kill him off.
------------------ Sheridan: "Dammit, what do you want? What do you want from me?" Kosh: "Never ask that question." Federation Starship Datalink: Brand new look, fresh minty scent, same great taste!
posted
OK, set design/lighting etc - maybe not Frake's input - I just can't place what I mean though... I did mention angles and the like - its all just close ups of Riker/Geordi/Trill woman... got very tedious... same as on the planet... In First Contact - there was always something going on on the screen that you missed most of it the first time around... With Insurrection - it was... empty... it felt flat... It was arrrrrgh I can't place it. I do LOVE how Frakes makes use of the ENTIRE screen though. It must send the Pan and Scan people into a spin trying to edit it later on...
Andrew
------------------ "This is cooling, faster than I can..." Tori Amos "Cooling"
posted
I like Lt. Daniels -- it's nice continuity, but I think if he gets fleshed out he'll appear to be less boring.
Same with the Trill officer, needs to get fleshed out. Course, I wouldn't mind seeing Lt. Nog assigned as Ops Officer or Helm Officer for the next flick.
Actually, I'd really like to see Riker get his own ship next movie, akin to Sulu and the Excelsior in Trek 6. Get him LaForge as XO, and put Nog on the Enterprise as Chief Engineer. Maybe. I dunno. Just a thought.
------------------ Star Trek Gamma Quadrant Average Rated 6.83 out of 10 Smileys by Fabrux *** "Oh, yes, screw logic, let's go for a theory with no evidence!" -Forum Member Who Shall Be Nameless. 11:48am, Jan. 19th, 2001
Saiyanman Benjita
...in 2012. This time, why not the worst?
Member # 122
posted
I personally liked the joystick, but that's just me.
However you are totally right on the lighting. During the series, the bridge was bright as day (along with Generations). During a red alert, the lights didn't just go out with the eerie red glow. If it did, it would probably hinder the sight of a lot of people. First contact was better on the lighting than Insurrection, with the lights obviously dimming because of the transfer of control. Insurrection, at least on board the Enterprise, seemed more like something out of a Batman movie (dark).
At least that's my opinion.
------------------ "Oh please. I'm wet, I'm naked. And you think this is some plot to take over the world as a wet monkey in my BIRTHDAY SUIT!"
posted
I dunno. It'd make the story a bit more complex, and if they do more movies, the leaps they'll have to go through to have Riker's ship near the Enterprise would make Worf's appearences seem 100% logical by comparison.
There is someone tapping his foot on the computer behind me. I may have to go and kill the annoying little prick.
------------------ "And Mojo was hurt and I would have kissed his little boo boo but then I realized he was a BAD monkey so I KICKED HIM IN HIS FACE!" -Bubbles
posted
I hope they don't rationalize Worf's appearance on the Enterprise by saying that he resigned as Ambassador to take up his Starfleet duties again. IMHO, that would really be stupid. But, knowing Paramount ...
Actually, the Enterprise could be transporting Ambassador Worf to or from Quo'nos, or to a meeting near the RNZ, which would explain it fairly well. But, erm, wouldn't Worf outrank Picard?
"Worf, take Tactical!" "No, you take it, I outrank you! Hah!" "Grrr..."
------------------ Star Trek Gamma Quadrant Average Rated 6.27 out of 10 Smileys by Fabrux (with four eps posted) *** "Oh, yes, screw logic, let's go for a theory with no evidence!" -Forum Member Who Shall Be Nameless. 11:48am, Jan. 19th, 2001
posted
Lt. Daniels WAS nice continuity - but if we need a character to just say lines... well I'm sure we could have someone better... Hawk was better than Daniels and how long did we see him for?
About the Insurrection lighting/mood I don't think it was so much dark as being flat... boring... monochrome... there was no contrast... the browns errrgh... I mean the E-D had browns but it was interesting - the sets in Insurrection didn't look crisp and 'futuristic' they looked old and dull... go rewatch it...
Does anyone else think that Jerry Goldsmith's score was just rehashed... nothingness? Syth-y crap!?!
Hmmm and that Bak'u theme was just excruciating - and if I hear that "Klingon Theme" again! ARRRRRRRRRGH!
Andrew
------------------ "This is cooling, faster than I can..." Tori Amos "Cooling"
posted
You mean having the Trill officer make "I must have him now eyes" at Riker wasn't "fleshed out" enough for you?
Worf wouldn't outrank Picard. Ambassadors don't have a military rank, they are just considered honored dignitaries.
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posted
I think that TPTB's reasoning for getting Worf back aboard the Enterprise will be the last thing on their minds. They certainly didn't care about explaining it too much in Insurrection.
Apparently, according to the John Logan interview on startrek.com, much of the new movie will take place in space, not on planet surfaces. That would imply better shots of the Enterprise and other ships than before.
posted
Fact is, they only have good effects when they use ILM. Since by all accounts ILM is tied up for the next 3 years on the remaining two Star Wars movies, they probably won't get them this time.
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posted
I agree that the VFX were rubbish in Insurrection. In fact, I personally think the effects in Generations were better, let alone First Contact. ILM certainly know what they're doing.
Insurrection did have an overall dullness to it - the scenario, the sets, the "humour", the effects, the music, all seemed lacking. To me, Generations was flawed but it seemed like a much better attempt at the time.
When it comes down to it, I really don't care whether or not the next movie is the last or not. What I do care about is that the last movie should kick ass and end the franchise with a bang, not a wimper.
------------------ "Life's too short to be pissed off all the time." (Danny Vinyard, American History X) Dax's Ships of Star Trek
[This message has been edited by Dax (edited February 10, 2001).]
OK, even if FC did have more Synths... not that there is anything wrong with them, Insurrection used them poorly... If you listen to a lot of Jerry's stuff lately - you'll recognise him in an instant with that "action synth" beeh beeh beeh beeh - jugging along...
Then there is the "beautiful themes" FC had them, and The Final Frontier was... really lovely - but the whole Bak'u theme - was just so... boring - soap operish - kiddy - sickly... Go to the Data under the water for a good example.
There was no real identifable theme to Insurrection as there had been to First Contact. I was grabbed by the ears and held to attention by the beautiful intro theme in First Contact. Insurrection was just... nothing.
As for rehashes... Insurrection soundtrack sounded like an add on for First Contact... a weaker one at that. There was nothing new and fresh. It was quite pedestrian.
------------------ "This is cooling, faster than I can..." Tori Amos "Cooling"
posted
Can I just add something about the Joystick...
It was such an insult to the fans and the people watching the movie... it seemed to imply that they needed some in your face way of showing that Riker was "taking control"... and they use a friggin joystick. It looked like something you could find in the "cheap bin" at your local computer store.
It was VERY 20th century - when most things techy in Trek - are new and innovative!
------------------ "This is cooling, faster than I can..." Tori Amos "Cooling"
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