posted
Yes, but with Voyager it seems to be more like producing crap then a good show, sadly.
Point is ... Stewart and Spiner more than likely don't want to come back for another flick after X. Might as well make it look believable.
------------------ Star Trek Gamma Quadrant Average Rated 6.27 out of 10 Smileys by Fabrux (with four eps posted) *** "Oh, yes, screw logic, let's go for a theory with no evidence!" -Forum Member Who Shall Be Nameless. 11:48am, Jan. 19th, 2001
posted
But, but, WHERE has it been said that Stewart and Spiner won't do any more Trek, hmm? I heard that for both First Contact and Insurrection, and everyone was wrong those times.
In fact, the only times I've heard that the two S's won't do anymore is in offhand comments. "Stewart does them on a whim", "Spiner hates Trek and wants death". And then, OTOH, you hear "Stewart wants Rick Berman's job!" "Spiner kills Brannon Braga!"
At the very least, Stewart and Spiner have a lot of input into the films. Which shows some self-interest, and possibly a desire to actually do good work. If it was just a paycheque to them, they wouldn't care.
Also, promoting the officers because, logically, they should have been (because, after all, everyone here is an expert on the 24th century promotion system), is stupid. You promote them for story reasons. Kirk was promoted to Admiral, but they used it well. Him forcing command back of the Enterprise to show his obsession, and also to highlight the fact that he was getting old (TWOK wouldn't have worked half as well if the crew were, say, in the state they were in ST:V).
As I look at it though, there's no good reason to promote anyone. If they did Picard, how would they make it different from Kirk's story, for instance.
If you want Trek world answers:
Why is everyone so desperate for these characters to get promotions anyway? If the past ten years have shown anything, it's that the characters love doing what they do. Riker never accepted a promotion because he's "happy". He loves the Enterprise family, like Kirk loved the Enterprise. Picard too, is happy. Sure, the Enterprise isn't an obsession to him like it was to Kirk, but he's got no pressing need to leave. Same for the others. They all love their jobs, and after a decade of saving the universe, Starfleet isn't going to make them move if they don't want to.
Anyway, if Star Trek's shown one other thing, it's that ensign's should try and get promotion as soon as possible, and captain's should avoid promotion for as long as they can.
Finally, regarding the extra's. They barely have enough time to give the regulars character development. You want them to work on extra's too? And how is saying "Oh, Mr fish here worked on the Hood" character development? It's useless background information for fanboys, in the same way that, in a regular show, off handidly saying "Mr Lick here uses to work for the LAPD before transferring". It's tossing the anoraks a bone, hoping they'll shut up.
------------------ "And Mojo was hurt and I would have kissed his little boo boo but then I realized he was a BAD monkey so I KICKED HIM IN HIS FACE!" -Bubbles
You make some very good points. But you seem to ignore that VOY establishes that Geordi LaForge gets a starship command, and All Good Things showed a future in which the senior staff had split up. It will occur, and if Trek X is to be the final Next Gen flick, I don't see why we can't end with it on that note -- the crew moving on to new assignments and challenges (Geordi for one needs to go be an Executive Officer so he can get a starship command).
As for Lt. Daniels, he's a member of the Enterprise-E's command staff. He's the Chief Security Officer, and he should at least be treated like a senior officer instead of a nameless supernumery. There's a brief scene in Insurrection, when Picard demands to know why Worf overslept, where you kind of get a hint of that. More of that is needed.
DS9 didn't end with the cast together. Kira, Bashir, Ezri, Nog and Quark stay on the station, Worf is the new Ambassador to the Klingon Empire, O'Brien is off to teach at the Academy, Odo returned to his people. That's what I'm advocating. That's all.
------------------ Star Trek Gamma Quadrant Average Rated 6.27 out of 10 Smileys by Fabrux (with four eps posted) *** "Oh, yes, screw logic, let's go for a theory with no evidence!" -Forum Member Who Shall Be Nameless. 11:48am, Jan. 19th, 2001
[This message has been edited by JeffKardde (edited February 13, 2001).]
[This message has been edited by JeffKardde (edited February 13, 2001).]
posted
Well, the future bits of AGT are not going to happen. First, we already know the E-D won't be around. And, also, it was probably just an illusion by Q, anyway. After all, Picard did things in the past that had no effect on the future, so he probably wasn't really moving through time.
And how far into the future was Geordi commanding the Challenger? If we assume he had just recently gotten command at that point, and if it's far enough away, he needn't be promoted just yet for it to still make sense.
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posted
Um ... while that is certainly an argument one can make regarding the future as seen in AGT, the other argument is that the individuals will be drawn in the same directions to that future regardless of certain changes.
Look at Worf, he's already taken steps in the direction of becoming a Klingon political figure. Even though he may not become a washed up Klingon governor, it's a good bet he will become a fixture within the Klingon political community (even as a Federation ambassador).
As I believe I said, AGT shouldn't be looked on as definitive as what the characters will be doing in the future timeline, but as a guide to how they might very well find themselves.
As for Geordi, I don't know how far into the future his command of the Challenger was. I find it rather unlikely that Geordi would get a Galaxy-Class as his first command tho, and as much as I like LaForge (my favorite TNG character), he doesn't seem like the kind of captain to get a Galaxy- or Sovereign- as his first command (unlike Riker), so I think Geordi would have to earn that command either by commanding a smaller starship, or excelling at being an XO (keep in mind, LaForge and Riker graduated the Academy the same year -- yet when assigned to the Enterprise, LaForge was a j.g. lieutenant and Riker just promoted to full Commander).
------------------ Star Trek Gamma Quadrant Average Rated 6.27 out of 10 Smileys by Fabrux (with four eps posted) *** "Oh, yes, screw logic, let's go for a theory with no evidence!" -Forum Member Who Shall Be Nameless. 11:48am, Jan. 19th, 2001
But it can be argued that with Martok leading the Klingon Empire, he will seek to build the relationship with Starfleet and the UFP, and thus Worf will become a figure of political power within the Empire ... thus, a Klingon political figure.
------------------ Star Trek Gamma Quadrant Average Rated 6.27 out of 10 Smileys by Fabrux (with four eps posted) *** "Oh, yes, screw logic, let's go for a theory with no evidence!" -Forum Member Who Shall Be Nameless. 11:48am, Jan. 19th, 2001
posted
So? That's very different from actually commanding one.
------------------ "I rather strongly disagree, even if I share the love of Dick. Speaking of which, that would be the most embarrasing .sig quote ever, so never use it."
posted
Plus, the Galaxies are still the biggest ships around, and probably few in number. Assignments to command them are bound to be political decisions and not just operational ones. Geordi in the TNG/DS9/VOY timeframe is a youngster compared with the likes of Picard, Varley, Jellico or Keogh, and probably hasn't scored too many political points yet.
posted
Of course, if it was far enough in the future, then the Galaxy-class might not be quite so hot. WHich I personally never thought it was. How many of them blew-up? Yeesh, they were suppossed to have a 100 life span, and they'd lost half of them in less than 10 years.
I can see Riker getting command of a Galaxy-class ship, and Geordi becoming his First Officer. Then Riker leaves (for whatever reason), and Geordi stays behind as Captain. Eight years of Galaxy-experience must count for something.
I don't buy the idea though, that the characters are drawn towards the AGT future anyway. For one, the ending of AGT implys that Picard told everyone so that they could avoid that future. The fact that he joins them in the Poker game also implies that he's trying to change things, in small ways. He doesn't want them to drift apart.
Plus, Riker and Worf's hostility doesn't quite make sense now. Worf's been married, and is fairly obviously over Troi. Riker and Troi are now dating (most likely), and Insurrection gave no indication that Worf cared.
Plus, the future-uniforms don't quite fit into the pattern established by the FC uniforms. (I know that's picky, but hey).
Besides, Riker was in charge of a Starbase, and he can't be, because in the future, ALL YOUR BASE BELONG TO US!
------------------ "And Mojo was hurt and I would have kissed his little boo boo but then I realized he was a BAD monkey so I KICKED HIM IN HIS FACE!" -Bubbles
And the AGT uniforms were also used in "The Visitor". I think they make sense. In forty years or so, SF could easily decide to go for that "retro-2260s" look...
------------------ My new year's resolution is the same as last year's: 1024x768.
posted
Here's the thing with possible futures: They will happen unless something happens to change them, right.
So...The uni's in "The Visitor" and "AGT" will come into use unless Sisko being alive after the episode instead of getting trapped in subspace like he did during the ep somehow effects Starfleet's uniform choice. Now, the Dominion war didn't seem to have happened in the "Visitor" future, so maybe the war influenced Starfleet in a more military direction and look. This will alter the uniforms used after the FC style...
Geordi's command WILL happen unless Voyager returning instead of crashing on the planet somehow effects Geordi's career, which I can't see how it would. Maybe Geordi knew Chakotay and was given command just to hunt him and Kim down... It was about 15 years in the future by the way, IIRC.
------------------ "You don't tug on Superman's cape. You don't spit into the wind. You don't pull the mask off the ole' Lone Ranger And you don't mess around with Jim." Aban's Illustration www.alanfore.com
posted
I don't think the Dominion War would have had any effect on the FC uniform style. How about. . . after the E-D was destroyed, someone from the command staff, likely Picard, got stuck on some uniform review board where he wouldn't have been had his ship survived, and a different style was chosen? Or how about: the admiral who eventually chose the AGT style was busy at the board of inquiry into the destruction of the Enterprise? Or. . . or. . . 8)
Here's a question no-one ever asks: why so many uniform changes anyway?
------------------ "I rather strongly disagree, even if I share the love of Dick. Speaking of which, that would be the most embarrasing .sig quote ever, so never use it."
posted
"Butterfly effect." You all know what I'm talking about, how one miniscule change can expand to change EVERYTHING?
Well every thing that happens differently on Star Trek contains BILLIONS of butterflies, any one of which could have unforseen consequences.
Someone on the E-D doesn't get a transfer when they might have, later, they then don't get promoted to an admiral's staff, and don't happen to be passing outside the office when he has a cold, and aren't there to say 'bless you' when the admiral sneezes, the admiral gets a smidgen grumpier, and his ulcer acts up, he misses a meeting vote, and the uniforms don't change.
The future is totally 'un-set,' so speculating why various futures don't gel is silly.
Of course, it could also be that the futures MUST come to pass, just not in the universe WE perceive. Any deviation from that time line creates another 'mirror' universe, a la "Paralells."
------------------ "My knowledge and experience far exceeds your own, by, oh, about a BILLION times!" -- Q
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