Saltah'na
Chinese Canadian, or 75% Commie Bastard.
Member # 33
posted
I found this very interesting article on the net. With only a few days before the anniversary of 9/11, the article posts a very interesting perspective. I am not being stereotypical, but I think this needs to be discussed.
[ September 07, 2002, 12:36: Message edited by: Tahna Los ]
-------------------- "And slowly, you come to realize, it's all as it should be, you can only do so much. If you're game enough, you could place your trust in me. For the love of life, there's a tradeoff, we could lose it all but we'll go down fighting...." - David Sylvian FreeSpace 2, the greatest space sim of all time, now remastered!
Registered: Mar 1999
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posted
I think the key here is Muslim politics vs. Muslim ideology. Despite the claims of the Islamic establishment, they are not one and the same.
I took a class that spent an entire semester studying Islam about two years ago, and so I know a bit more than the average American about this religion. (Or so I'd like to think, anyway. I don't claim to be an expert.) I believe that the majority of "common" Muslims are not of the sort that are widely publicized these days; however, I'm starting to think that the majority of the Muslim leadership IS of the violent stereotype that pervades these days.
It's sad, really, that such extremists ended up taking over that Malaysia conference. I hadn't heard of anything like that happening before today. It's all the more evidence that most of the Islamic leadership is corrupt and willing to support violence.
The idea that the Muslim world is collapsing is an interesting one. Although the upheaval and violence that would undoubtedly ensue would certainly be a bad thing, I don't think that it would be worse than the upheaval and violence that is present today -- in the long run. The world can either allow the status quo to continue, or hope for change.
-------------------- “Those people who think they know everything are a great annoyance to those of us who do.” — Isaac Asimov Star Trek Minutiae | Memory Alpha
Registered: Nov 2000
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Saltah'na
Chinese Canadian, or 75% Commie Bastard.
Member # 33
posted
An interesting thing that I have read in the newspaper before this article was from a Muslim in North America comparing the Palestinian Struggle to the struggles of Black Slavery in the United States. I have heard that some blacks committed criminal acts to achieve their means. He said it was folly "to allow this horrendous double standard to exist, one group is forgiven while the other is looked upon in anger".
Are they the same? Different? Or what?
-------------------- "And slowly, you come to realize, it's all as it should be, you can only do so much. If you're game enough, you could place your trust in me. For the love of life, there's a tradeoff, we could lose it all but we'll go down fighting...." - David Sylvian FreeSpace 2, the greatest space sim of all time, now remastered!
Registered: Mar 1999
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"...suicide bombings were permissible because 'victims are considered to have died a martyr's death.' They go straight to paradise, cleansed of all sin."
Most. Dangerous. Belief. Ever.
Registered: Mar 1999
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posted
*shrug* Islam is hardly the only religion with extremists and would-be martyrs.
Registered: Mar 1999
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Cartman
just made by the Presbyterian Church
Member # 256
posted
The Palestinians are, as the Blacks were, in pursuit of an arguably just cause... freedom of oppression. But justice is in the eye of the beholder, who usually does not have the benefit of 20/20 hindsight. Do the ends excuse the means? Do two wrongs make one right? In this instance, I'm forced to agree on both counts.
"The failure of fundamentalism to attract broad support suggests that, at the limit, radical Islam has reached a dead end. And that 9/11 was an act of desperation by a dying movement, not the sign of a clash of civilizations."
Thing is, fundamentalism does not depend on widespread support to survive. Niven's 16th law comes to mind, but it goes much deeper. Both sides are trapped in a vicious circle of hatred, intolerance and violence. Breaking the cycle can only be accomplished by mutual effort, and a shared willingness to put the past behind. Decades of bad blood don't flow away overnight, but if neither party is prepared to make concessions, escaping the loop is impossible. In that regard, 9/11 presented a golden opportunity towards rapprochement... regrettably, nobody took it.
[ September 07, 2002, 14:09: Message edited by: E. Cartman ]
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted
As a rule, there aren't a whole lot of things that I'm exceedingly certain about.
But I am certain that Joe Squarejaw from Liberty City Texas (who grew up playing up football in his perfectly green yard with his WWII vet uncle, went to church every sunday, doesn't drink, smoke or do drugs, and has wanted to be a marine ever since he was four) would strap explosives to his body and die a "hero" for truth, justice and the American Way if America were ever occupied by a swarm of dirty mangey Mexicans armed by those Russkie bastards, who killed momma and banned his daddy from working at the family service station.
-------------------- "I was surprised by the matter-of-factness of Kafka's narration, and the subtle humor present as a result." (Sizer 2005)
Registered: Mar 1999
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posted
I happen to know Joe Squarejaw, and asked him if he would indeed do these things.
Joe Squarejaw looked me square in the eye, and said: "Son, all hypotheticals aside, We here would never let Commies in the country in the first place. I happen to watch "Red Dawn" every Sunday night, after church, just to remember the reasons why I am loaded for bear at all times. So you see, it would never be necessary for me to strap dyno-mite (sic) on my person. I'd just shoot 'em dead with some double-ought buck, and have a Bud."
Joe Squarejaw's wife Mary Jane had a similar opinion. "We ain't here because our great-granddaddies were nice people, man. We're here because they were some mean sons of bitches." She then thoughtfully spit a wad of chaw out into the spitoon before proceeding. "I reckon they'd have a fight on their hands, that's for sure."
Anyway, seeing as how neither one of them actually answered the question, I decided to talk to their son, Buck. Buck, who was All-State Quarterback two years in a row until his knee was blown out in a game against Tulsa, had this to say.
"Dude. If it got that bad, I'd do it. Hell. I've got nothin' to live for now, anyway. My knee done gone bad."
There you have it folks.
Registered: Jan 2001
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posted
The Palestinians are, as the Blacks were, in pursuit of an arguably just cause... freedom of oppression.
So they claim. But the catch is, they're not BEING oppressed, at least not by Israel, and CERTAINLY not by us. The PLO's (and similar groups') battle with Israel has become one of those darned annoying conflicts where the legitimate issue is long over, and yet people continue to fight anyway. It's somewhat similar to slavery reparations, in that way. "Sure, we'd be happy to make up for things, except for one small problem: the people we'd have to make it up to are DEAD! YOU, sir, have no claim."
-------------------- "This is why you people think I'm so unknowable. You don't listen!" - God, "God, the Devil and Bob"
Registered: Mar 1999
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posted
Up until just recently Palistinians had jobs in Israeli work areas, there extremist faction did see to their un-employment. I don't know if they were making as much as their Israeli counterparts, but, they still had jobs. Well, till the suicide bombers stepped up their operations...
-------------------- "You are a terrible human, Ritten." Magnus "Urgh, you are a sick sick person..." Austin Powers A leek too, pretty much a negi.....
Registered: Sep 2000
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posted
I'm going to have to ask for Omega's definition of oppression.
-------------------- "I was surprised by the matter-of-factness of Kafka's narration, and the subtle humor present as a result." (Sizer 2005)
Registered: Mar 1999
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posted
Off the top of my head, I'd define it as an official institution designed for the specific purpose of preventing members of a group from exercizing what would otherwise be their legal rights, for no reason other than the fact that they are part of said group.
-------------------- "This is why you people think I'm so unknowable. You don't listen!" - God, "God, the Devil and Bob"
Registered: Mar 1999
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posted
Okay, Omega-stinian, what are your legal rights, and who bestowed said rights to you??? In your case, since the law gave black people the right to be, legally, nothing but property, then they were not being oppressed, since this was their legal right.
If you mean that a person should have the right to live in peace with the people around him/her, instead of being bothered with anything from financial to physical attacks because that person belongs to some group or another. Then yes, we are all oppressed.
-------------------- "You are a terrible human, Ritten." Magnus "Urgh, you are a sick sick person..." Austin Powers A leek too, pretty much a negi.....
Registered: Sep 2000
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