posted
Could God change the gravitational constant of the universe?
On a more serious note... I'm starting to think that the ideas of Human free will and a God who actively intervenes in our world are totally incompatible.
Here's an even simpler question: if God has given Humans free will, then why should we be punished for choosing not to believe in him?
-------------------- “Those people who think they know everything are a great annoyance to those of us who do.” — Isaac Asimov Star Trek Minutiae | Memory Alpha
Registered: Nov 2000
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quote: If man is a good, and cannot act rightly unless he wills to do so, then he must have free will, without which he cannot act rightly. We must not believe that God gave us free will so that we might sin, just because sin is committed through free will. It is sufficient for our question, why free will should have been given to man, to know that without it man cannot live rightly. That it was given for this reason can be understood from the following: if anyone uses free will for sinning, he incurs divine punishment. This would be unjust if free will had been given not only that man might live rightly, but also that he might sin. For how could a man justly incur punishment who used free will to do the thing for which it was given? When God punishes a sinner, does He not seem to say, "Why have you not used free will for the purpose for which I gave it to you, to act rightly?"
St. Augustine "On the Free Choice of the Will"
Registered: Mar 1999
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posted
Alas I have not read the entire post, four pages is a lot of reading especially about theology. But to respond to the question of why free will and punishmnet for disbelief I would like say that from what I understand of you create something or have something that can chose to give love or not, like a cat, that thing is precious to you more than a model or other inanimate thing which cannot give love only be the focus of your own love. We as humans are the same, we can give love or not, its our choice. When we chose to not believe in God as the one true God and Jesus Christ as his saviour then we are choosing freely the right to sin (which is anything counter to God's will). With that free choose we alientate ourselves to God, becuase God is pure and sin is impurity it cannot be near him and our choosing to sin makes impure (why we are sinners from the beginning stems from Adam as the federal head of man). When we choose to love God and do what he says we consciencly choosing this, we could be made to do this, but then we are nothing more than things, pecious to God but nore than a rock. By choosing we show that we are not following our own desires and following his. This purifies us and allows us to be with God, while without purity (the saving life of Christ) you must be seperated from God (Hell). I don't know if that is clear or not. The second thing that caught my attention was the Jesus studying Buddhism. Untrue, Chrsitianity and Buddhism are different in that there is one God, one saviour, sin, and a single punishment for that sin. Buddhism is a self-centered focus while Christianity is God focused. Finally, as to God changing from the Old Testiment to the New Testament. I will teach you the new word, immutable, which means unchanging. James 1:17 "Every good and perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of heavenly lights, who does not change like shifting shadows ." James is in the NT, and you might say, see different section differnt God, but Malachi 3:6a the last book of the OT says, "'I the LORD do not change.'" Now the names are different, but God has always been known by many names, Elohim, Jehova, LORD, Abba Father, etc. He God) is the same yesterday, today, and tomarrow and despite two differnt sections writting about him in two differnt ways that waas the society and culture that God was ministering to.
Registered: May 2002
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quote:Originally posted by Paladin181: The second thing that caught my attention was the Jesus studying Buddhism. Untrue, Chrsitianity and Buddhism are different in that there is one God, one saviour, sin, and a single punishment for that sin. Buddhism is a self-centered focus while Christianity is God focused.
So...Jesus couldn't have studied Buddhism because Buddhism has no God whereas Christianity has an obsession with singular things?
Is this like...oh, hell, I can't be arsed coming up with an analogy. I'll just say...what?
-------------------- Yes, you're despicable, and... and picable... and... and you're definitely, definitely despicable. How a person can get so despicable in one lifetime is beyond me. It isn't as though I haven't met a lot of people. Goodness knows it isn't that. It isn't just that... it isn't... it's... it's despicable.
Registered: Mar 1999
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posted
That is confusing isn't it. I guess I mean that they are two different beliefs. More importantly Christinity's morals and such come from Judism which predates Buddhism. If Jesus was God's son and God wrote the Ten Commandments for the Israelits then why would he need to study in the east to learn things like, "turn the other cheek..." or "love thy neighbor as thyself..."? Second Buddhism is another religion and it would be counter to His character to join some other religion when he made such statements as, "I am the way, the truth, and the life, no one comes to the father accept through me." And the "obsession" with singular things is called monothesis.
Registered: May 2002
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posted
Just so you know, I haven't forgotten about this thread. It's just that my teachers felt the need to cram an entire chapters' worth of stuff into the four classes before finals. I should respond within a week, tops.
-------------------- "This is why you people think I'm so unknowable. You don't listen!" - God, "God, the Devil and Bob"
Registered: Mar 1999
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posted
So, apparently, Yahweh said "You have free will. You can do whatever you want. Now do what I tell you or I'll kick your ass.". That's the same kind of "free will" you have as a child, or in the military. Sure, you can do whatever you want within the realm of physical possibility, but, after you do, your parent/superior is going to spank you/throw you in prison.
Paladin: So, it's your contention that any person who believes something can never ever ever ever ever ever ever in their entire life look at something having to do w/ another religion? Since Omega is a rabid Christian, there's absolutely no chance whatsoever that he's ever read a book about Buddhism? Since Rob is a deist, he can't possibly have ever read the teachings of Martin Luther? Since I'm somewhere between agnosticism and atheism, I only imagined being raised as a Catholic?
Registered: Mar 1999
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posted
No, I contend that Jesus Christ would not study Buddhism or anyother religion on the fact that His purpose was to be the "WAY", his death allows man and God to be together again. Also He, being God, would know what Buddha or Confucious had said or even thought. To say that he need to study with Buddhist or even Pope John Paul the III is saying that He is not allknowing (omnipotent) and therefore not God. In response to free will, my understanding of freedom is not do waht ever you please when ever you please, that would be choas and anarchy. Freedom is the ability to do what ever you want within boundries, even athiest and Buddhists can agree on this. The universe has boundries like gravity we cannot, or should not, break (at least not here on earth where taking away gravity would leave our planet without atmosphere). So it is with God, he sat the rule that he would not allow sin to be in his presence, but He would allow man chose sin or life. There is a verse that says, "Everything is permissable for you, but not always benificial." It just like when you were a kid and you had a backyard with a fence and your parents said don't go over the fence into the neighbors yard. You have the ability to cross over that fence at anytime (the grass sure does look greener over there too). As long as you stay in your backyard you can do anything, but once you cross over into the neighbors yard your ability to play baseball is severly hampered because you are always watching to make sure your not caught (not to mention the neighbors have a little yappy weiner dog... grrr...). Uhh... Anyway, this post has gone longer than I intended and I need to finish a take-home final for my Philosophy of Worship Class.
Registered: May 2002
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"No, I contend that Jesus Christ would not study Buddhism or anyother religion on the fact that His purpose was to be the 'WAY', his death allows man and God to be together again. Also He, being God, would know what Buddha or Confucious had said or even thought. To say that he need to study with Buddhist or even Pope John Paul the III is saying that He is not allknowing (omnipotent) and therefore not God."
Oh. My mistake. I thought you were making a rational arguement.
Registered: Mar 1999
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quote:To say that he need to study with Buddhist or even Pope John Paul the III is saying that He is not allknowing (omnipotent) and therefore not God.
Wow, time travel! Pope John Paul the THIRD?
quote:In response to free will, my understanding of freedom is not do waht ever you please when ever you please, that would be choas and anarchy. Freedom is the ability to do what ever you want within boundries, even athiest and Buddhists can agree on this.
Now you're confusing the nature of morality with theological beliefs -- which is NOT necessarily the same thing. Those "boundaries" can exist even without your god, or any other. Or are you accusing me of being a depraved evildoer simply because I don't go to church or believe in the god you tell me to?
Now, according to basic Christian beliefs, god gave me the ability to reason, and the ability to make my own decisions. I am using my powers of reason, and do not see sufficient cause to choose to believe -- or rather, I see sufficient reason to choose NOT to believe. Now, why the heck would god punish me for using the very gifts he supposedly gave me? (Assuming that some god does exist, anyway.)
And now, as a perfect example of the arrogance of religion (though I realize this is just one denomination, not all of Christianity), I give you all this link:
-------------------- “Those people who think they know everything are a great annoyance to those of us who do.” — Isaac Asimov Star Trek Minutiae | Memory Alpha
Registered: Nov 2000
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quote: Also among those baptized posthumously by the church, according to Radkey's research:Ghengis Khan, Joan of Arc, Adolf Hitler, Josef Stalin and Buddha
obviously not picky then, these Mormons...
-------------------- "I am an almost extinct breed, an old-fashioned gentleman, which means I can be a cast-iron son-of-a-bitch when it suits me." --Jubal Harshaw
Registered: Feb 2002
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posted
Well, obviously, if God existed, and you could not see him, then you're just plain wrong, and it's hardly his fault. You've got the tools, you just weren't using them correctly.
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