Slapping the title of "marriage" onto something isn't gonna effect THAT.
Marriage as a civil contract needs to be completely seperated from marriage as a religious concept. Makes things so much simpler that way.
-------------------- "This is why you people think I'm so unknowable. You don't listen!" - God, "God, the Devil and Bob"
Registered: Mar 1999
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I agree but the same "good moral" people that would deny gay marriages based on their bible basedmorality would deny any legal civil contract between same sex partners based on the same reasons no matter what the union was called. It's discrimination on religous grounds plain and simple.
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
Registered: Aug 2002
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Indeed. What's in a name? A marriage is a marriage. . . Or so I thought:
quote:Marriage as a civil contract needs to be completely seperated from marriage as a religious concept. Makes things so much simpler that way.
How? It seems to me you're saying that they should be two different things. Now, I'm pretty sure that if you get married it'll be a religious marriage, correct? So that, from your point of view, will be your basic definition of a marriage. Which means that anyone who doesn't have a religious marriage isn't 'really' married, surely? Well, that is, quite frankly, complete bollocks. I'm an atheist, my wife is an agnostic, and we got married in a civil ceremony. But you're implying that we're not 'really' married?
We got married because we love each other, and wanted to make the ultimate statement of that fact. It wasn't a religious statement, or a civil contract (although of course the latter remains a part of it, just not a very important part - to us, anyway), it was an act of love. I was even quite happy for Kate to keep her own surname, but in fact she wanted to change.
quote: I think you people misinterpret what Bush is saying. He is not saying Gays shouldn't allowed to be married. He's merely saying he doesn't want it called MARRIAGE
What? Read that again. It doesn't make sense. They are NOT allowed to be married. Because your President is a superstitious christian fundamentalist. But hey, you guys voted for him.
posted
I agree but the same "good moral" people that would deny gay marriages based on their bible basedmorality would deny any legal civil contract between same sex partners based on the same reasons no matter what the union was called.
True, they would. But they shouldn't. That would be letting religious beliefs influence law, which is a no-no as a general rule.
Now, I'm pretty sure that if you get married it'll be a religious marriage, correct? So that, from your point of view, will be your basic definition of a marriage. Which means that anyone who doesn't have a religious marriage isn't 'really' married, surely?
*shrug*
My definition of marriage is where two people promise each other the usual stuff, i.e. operate as a unit, love, only you, death do us part, etc. Doesn't HAVE to be a religious ceremony, but the religious aspects add other degrees to it, as in making these promises not only to your spouse, but before all those present and before God. I wouldn't necessarily consider a civil marriage any less valid a marriage than a religious marriage, just like I wouldn't necessarily consider the word of an athiest to be less valid than that of a Christian. If and when I get married, it will be a religious ceremony, but it will also have the appropriate civil aspects as well.
-------------------- "This is why you people think I'm so unknowable. You don't listen!" - God, "God, the Devil and Bob"
Registered: Mar 1999
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Incidentally, many insurance carriers ALREADY provide insurance policies for same-sex couples. As do many employers.
Registered: Mar 1999
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quote: I think you people misinterpret what Bush is saying. He is not saying Gays shouldn't allowed to be married. He's merely saying he doesn't want it called MARRIAGE
What? Read that again. It doesn't make sense. They are NOT allowed to be married. Because your President is a superstitious christian fundamentalist. But hey, you guys voted for him.
They are allowed to be married in some states. It's merely not called "Marriage". As pointed out, that is the debate before the Massachusetts court, wether or not it should legally be called marriage.
-------------------- "Lotta people go through life doing things badly. Racing's important to men who do it well. When you're racing, it's life. Anything that happens before or after is just waiting."
-Steve McQueen as Michael Delaney, LeMans
Registered: Mar 1999
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But Bush is in hock to the religous right (if he wants to get re-elected anyway) and so is swayed by what the church tells him to do. Old man Pope is meddeling bigtime when his own priests are homosexual pedophiles? Talk about throwing stones.
The bad thing is: once Jon Paul II dies, the three main choices to replace him are far far less tolerant. 'Here ib America, we need lawmakers that actually adhire to the Constution.
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
Registered: Aug 2002
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quote:Originally posted by Jason Abbadon: 'Here ib America, we need lawmakers that actually adhire to the Constution.
[sic]
Careful, that's a right-wing idea. You can't have those here.
-------------------- "The best defense is not a good offense. The best defense is a terrifyingly accurate and devastatingly powerful offense, with multiply-overlapping kill zones and time-on-target artillery strikes." -- Laurence, Archangel of the Sword
Registered: Mar 1999
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Yeah, it's just a right-wing idea ignored, trampled on, and demolished at every convenient opportunity ... BY the right wing, and especially by the fascist assprick in the Oval Office at the moment (and I'm not talking about Dickweed Cheney, either), and just blamed on the left by every idiot and moron who worship the altar of whackos, fundementalists, extremists, and convicted felons (which, I think, pretty much lines up the conservative's representation in the media, especially of the AM-radio variety).
quote:Originally posted by Malnurtured Snay: Yeah, it's just a right-wing idea ignored, trampled on, and demolished at every convenient opportunity ... BY the right wing, and especially by the fascist assprick in the Oval Office at the moment (and I'm not talking about Dickweed Cheney, either), and just blamed on the left by every idiot and moron who worship the altar of whackos, fundementalists, extremists, and convicted felons (which, I think, pretty much lines up the conservative's representation in the media, especially of the AM-radio variety).
Don't hold back, tell us how you REALLY feel.
Snay's turning into a Rush Limbaugh Liberal. Oh, and the convicted felons? They overwhelmingly vote Democratic. Just FYI.
quote:Increasingly, groups under the Democratic umbrella have diametrically opposing views: a working-class Catholic Latino who opposes abortion; a black male activist who's against gays marrying; a Muslim who prefers there be no Bible group in public school. To coexist, all are forced to make pacts with the devil.
quote:A Notre Dame study found that 70% of Latinos identify themselves as Roman Catholic and 62% want religious organizations or the church to be more involved in shaping government policies. As issues involving gays, reproductive rights and the church/state relationship take center stage, Latinos have begun to jump the Democratic ship: 81% voted for Clinton in 1996, but only 62% supported Gore in 2000.
-------------------- "The best defense is not a good offense. The best defense is a terrifyingly accurate and devastatingly powerful offense, with multiply-overlapping kill zones and time-on-target artillery strikes." -- Laurence, Archangel of the Sword
Registered: Mar 1999
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Honestly, you two, why don't you just fuck each other and get it over with? It's not like you have to get married - sorry, enter into a civil contract - afterwards. . . 8)
quote:Oh, and the convicted felons? They overwhelmingly vote Democratic.
First off, I'd like to see you post some sources to back up these numbers. Of course, you can't because like just about everything that sprouts from your idiot-infested brain, you pulled it out of your ass and dusted it off.
Second off, I'm surprised to see YOU happy that the Religious Right is gaining support. The seperation of church and state is fundemental to this nation's existance and how it is goverened and the efforts of the Wrong-Wing to turn this country into a bunch of Christian fundementalist bent on burning the wiccans, disemboweling the homos, exiling the non-whites, and silencing the dissenters would have, I thought, earned your wrath (if just from the "I'll join your religious sham when you pry my gun from my cold dead hands" mentality).
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