posted
Well, I seem to remember a few months ago that murals in Iraq, painted generally from the perspective of "Yay! A bunch of people who are of the same religion as us struck a deadly blow against a country none of us like which is full of infidels!" were being seen as being proof-positive that the Iraqi government was responsible or culpable for the events of 9/11.
What's that word that means finding pleasure in the misfortune of others? I can't recall it offhand, but it certainly doesn't equal being responsible for the misfortune of others.
Saltah'na
Chinese Canadian, or 75% Commie Bastard.
Member # 33
posted
Perhaps there is only one question to be asked in Saddam's Interrogations: "pssst.... where is your oil?"
-------------------- "And slowly, you come to realize, it's all as it should be, you can only do so much. If you're game enough, you could place your trust in me. For the love of life, there's a tradeoff, we could lose it all but we'll go down fighting...." - David Sylvian FreeSpace 2, the greatest space sim of all time, now remastered!
Registered: Mar 1999
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posted
Cartman: I was impressed with your civilty too. I had just been reading some of the posts from the past few weeks and saw the flames that had errupted, so I wanted to put a disclaimer in there that I was not going to keep it going. But since I had so much fun reading your responses, I am going to break my promise and say a very few more words.
2. The concept of legitimacy really bugged me when I took international law. You're right, there is no objective scale by which we can measure every act of questionable legitimacy. It really raised my eyebrow when I read that a lot of countries were secretly glad the Israelis bombed Iraq's nuclear plant in 1983 (I think). They considered post hoc to be a legitimate act because the results were good. The problem is how ex ante you do it, and I really don't have an answer. The only consolation I can give is that, so far, the use of preemptive strike has worked well enough to not obliterate humanity.
3. I have to say I was extremely impressed you went and read Fukuyama's essay! I have one on this very topic if you're interested. It's much shorter than Fukuyama's, I promise. http://www.techcentralstation.com/060503B.html. I would have linked it before but I thought the post was getting too long as it is. Perhaps what I'm reading in your post is something we discussed in my jurisprudence class all this past semester: the is/ought distinction. The gist of it that while we want people to act with good motives, law is not a weildy tool to achieving that end; religion is better suited to it.
10. That's one thing I hate about the news media: they're not very good at keeping two thoughts in our heads at once. You're right, one argument tends to get emphasized to the exclusion of others at any time, unless you're a news junkie like me and try to read everything. The arguments were being made, they just weren't being communicated very well. I would have liked to have seen a nice poster shown to the media of all the reasons we should have gone to war and have it make it on the nightly news so everyone in America could read them all at once.
12. I'm curious about your response to Fukuyama's essay. Where do you think he went wrong in it?
-------------------- "Warfare is the greatest affair of state, the basis of life and death, the Tao to survivial or extinction. It must be thoroughly pondered and analyzed."
"...attaining one hundred victories in one hundred battles is not the pinnacle of excellence. Subjugating the enemy's army without fighting is the true pinnacle of excellence."
-Sun Tzu, The Art of War, 6th century B.C.E.
Registered: May 1999
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quote:Originally posted by Lee: What's that word that means finding pleasure in the misfortune of others? I can't recall it offhand, but it certainly doesn't equal being responsible for the misfortune of others.
Shadansomethingorother. Shameful Joy in German, if I remember my Simpsons episodes.
-------------------- Yes, you're despicable, and... and picable... and... and you're definitely, definitely despicable. How a person can get so despicable in one lifetime is beyond me. It isn't as though I haven't met a lot of people. Goodness knows it isn't that. It isn't just that... it isn't... it's... it's despicable.
Registered: Mar 1999
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quote:Originally posted by TSN: I don't think it's a good idea for Hussein to be tried in either an Iraqi court or a US court. After all, when you try a normal criminal, do you let the victim be the judge? Do you let the cops who arrested him be the jury?
The only problem is the fact that anything resembling an international court is anathema to the US government. It's funny how, when we get to go beat up other countries, we're all about getting involved in world affairs. But as soon as someone suggests that people (including ourselves) might be answerable to someone other than us, we don't want anything to do with it.
Well, the Iraqui people sure wint be getting justice if Saddam is tried by the world court. Remember Melosivtch's "Iron Lady"? She pled guilty as an accessory in 3 MILLION deaths and she got nine whole years. Would you settle for that sentence of someone murdered your family? That's about 30 seconds jail term per person murdered. You'll wait longer than that on the phone any given day. We (U.S., Australlia and Britan)sentence people to life in prison for ONE murder and the Iraquis sentence people to death for the same thing. So where does the world court get off judging by the standards of France and Italy when the agreeved parties (and in fact Saddam himself) judge on a much harsher system?
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
Registered: Aug 2002
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posted
You refer to Saddam? Hardly. He was kickin' back with a cigar as he ordered gass attacks of the Kurds and was living the good life in several palaces while children he put in prison wasted away.
The guy's right up there with Stalin and Hitler. i'm cool with the world court trying Saddam as long as every murder becomes a seperate charge and isint piled into a tidy little package. People should hear exactly what he's done.
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
Registered: Aug 2002
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Aw, poor babies... Not dancing in the streets like they were on 9/11. Too bad, so sad.
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
Registered: Aug 2002
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"We (U.S., Australlia and Britan)sentence people to life in prison for ONE murder and the Iraquis sentence people to death for the same thing. "So where does the world court get off judging by the standards of France and Italy when the agreeved parties (and in fact Saddam himself) judge on a much harsher system?"
Well, you seem to be assuming that Britain and its descendants do justice the "right" way, and others to it "wrong". One look at the US prison system kills, buries, and desecrates the grave of that theory.
Now, granted, I'll agree that someone convicted of what I believe is typically termed "crimes against humanity" shouldn't be getting released from punishment anytime within their life. And, if the international court is being too lenient, maybe we ought to get involved in it and see whether they'll change their minds. But don't just assume that the US and Britain & Co. are the be-all and end-all of human civilization. If a significant percentage of the world disagrees with you, isn't it better to discuss it openly, then to yell "He's our prisoner, and we're going home!"?
Registered: Mar 1999
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posted
We'll sell Saddam to the world court to cover our tab for Iraq's reconstruction, okay?
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
Registered: Aug 2002
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posted
Well, there's always the Napoleon option; we just bung him on an isolated island somewhere with copious quantities of arsenic flavoured wall paper...
The problem with a trial in Iraq is that the legal system there is a little uncertain there at the moment. Will they continue with the law as it was under Saddam? I doubt it. Which really leaves them with two choices: a Western based system or Sharia. And I can't see the US allowing Sharia law. While I can certainly see the attraction of executing him, I don't think it'd be wise. It would just make him into a martyr. Equally, though, I don't think the sentences handed down by the international courts are long enough (Does anyone know why ther're so short?). A special international tribunal might be the best option, along the lines of Nuremburg.
Registered: Feb 2002
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posted
Satan? Wouldnt that be "The West" in general according to Wahabbi dogma?
Just load one bullett into a revolver. Each of the victims family menbers gets to pull the trigger once utill justice is served. At sveral milion tries, there's still a slight* chance he wouldnt be killed after all.
*Slight refers to statictically insignifigant.
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
Registered: Aug 2002
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