quote:U.S. Formally Transfers Sovereignty to Iraqi Government
BAGHDAD, June 28 - Sovereignty was formally handed to an Iraqi interim government at a low-key ceremony in Baghdad on Monday morning, two days earlier than expected.
Reuters correspondent Alistair Lyon, who was at the ceremony, said it was attended by Paul Bremer, the outgoing U.S. governor of Iraq, and top Iraqi government officials.
I guess we get to see what Iraqi sovereignty means to the Bush administration.
But why did they take this action early you might ask as I did?
A real indicator of the Bush administration's success in bringing peace and stability to Iraq if there ever was one.
-------------------- Great is the guilt of an unnecessary war. ~ohn Adams
Once again the Bush Administration is worse than I had imagined, even though I thought I had already taken account of the fact that the Bush administration is invariably worse than I can imagine. ~Brad DeLong
You're just babbling incoherently. ~C. Montgomery Burns
Registered: Mar 1999
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posted
Well, we could get the fuck outta dodge now nad let things really go to hell in a week....
Of course, then everyone would blame us for not doing enough to install a stable government...
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
Registered: Aug 2002
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posted
That, quite simply, has nothing to do with anything. The claim that U.S. troops should instantly leave Iraq while doing nothing to repair the damage done is in no way a necessary consequence of the claim that the U.S. has mishandled the situation in Iraq.
That kind of bipolar policy framework makes for easy politics in parliaments and congresses, but it quickly leads to disasterous results in the real world.
Registered: Mar 1999
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Saltah'na
Chinese Canadian, or 75% Commie Bastard.
Member # 33
posted
I do not fault the US army in Iraq for the present situation. It reminds me of Command and Conquer: Generals, where the Terrorists use the "Angry Mob" ability against the United States. Quite effective too.
-------------------- "And slowly, you come to realize, it's all as it should be, you can only do so much. If you're game enough, you could place your trust in me. For the love of life, there's a tradeoff, we could lose it all but we'll go down fighting...." - David Sylvian FreeSpace 2, the greatest space sim of all time, now remastered!
Registered: Mar 1999
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posted
Well, on the plus side, now that Iraq is (technically) it's own country and under the UN (presumably), they can formally request UN peacekeepig forces (though that's never gonna happen) and assistance rebuilding and onsuring democratic elections.
Amazing that the UN has more street cred than the US- shows how badly we've fucked up there.
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
Registered: Aug 2002
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quote: Origanally posted by Sol System "doing nothing to repair the damage done"
Actually, the 'damage that resulted from the war' (mostly looting!) has been repaired and more (there is still more work to be done to get it up to high-not-just-Saddam standards, though). The main problem is the instability, of course.
Doing the transfer two days before the scheduled date was actually a smart move. It's nice to see a glimmer of intelligence every now and then from our otherwise idiotic leaders (though I supported the idea of the war, pretty much everything about it was done blatently improperly - and I am not speaking from hindsight!!!).
"...the 'damage that resulted from the war' (mostly looting!)..."
Yeah, I'm sure looting caused so much more damage than those big-ass bombs.
"...has been repaired and more..."
Is that why they only get about eight hours of electricity a day? In the summer. In the desert.
"Doing the transfer two days before the scheduled date was actually a smart move."
I'm actually going to be not-sarcastic for this one. I disagree. Bushco are already untrusted, even in this country. Far more so over there. Changing the plans for the "handover" at the last minute, without any warning... it just looks far too suspicious. Even if (and we're talking, like, 0.01% chance here) they did this for actual benevolent purposes, they did it, like everything else, completely wrong. The last thing they need to be doing is saying "Surprise! We said one thing, then did something else! Again!".
Registered: Mar 1999
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quote:Originally posted by TSN: Yeah, I'm sure looting caused so much more damage than those big-ass bombs.
Looting did cause more harm then the bombs. Take hospitals, power grids, and sewage systems for example.
quote:Originally posted by TSN: Is that why they only get about eight hours of electricity a day? In the summer. In the desert.
It's not nice (though slowly improving). However, relativisticly speaking Iraq has roughly the same power as before the war. An interesting point that has caused resentment in Baghdad is that the power is now more evenly distributed across the countryside, so though many areas get more power, Baghdad gets less.
It's true that Bush is very untrustworthy, but I don't think this power transfer will cause more harm. It does not strike me as the type of thing that would arrouse suspision (what is the ulterior motive?). Iraqis seem to agree from the few news articles I've read.
On another note: does anybody know the murder rate in the Sunni triangle as compared with other areas of the globe?
posted
Neutrino 123: "Looting did cause more harm then the bombs. Take hospitals, power grids, and sewage systems for example."
They stole the power grids and looted the sewers? What valuable things did they have in their old Mesopotamian sewers? Was it like those sewers in Diablo II, Act II (desert town)? With treasure chests, shrines and shiny swords to be stolen? And fetid corpses stashing amulets?
Jokes aside, shoarleaf the power grids and sewage systems must be more vulnerable to bombing than looting??
Registered: Aug 1999
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Look, in Sweden the closest thing to looting you have is a melee when it emerges that due to Ikea's lax stock-checking, supplies of Hrulsta occasional tables are dangerously low. Serious looters will rip the wires and cables out of the walls to sell the copper for scrap. They steal everything. At least after being bombed the stuff is still there and might be repairable.
"At least after being bombed the stuff is still there and might be repairable."
I'm not sure it works that way. I mean, if looters steal the stuff inside the buildings, you just replace the stuff (even if it is, say, the wiring). On the other hand, once a building has been bombed, chances are you're going to have to clear away the rubble and rebuild the whole thing.
Registered: Mar 1999
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posted
It can work both ways depending on the exact situation.
quote:Originally posted by Nim the Fanciful: Neutrino 123: "Looting did cause more harm then the bombs. Take hospitals, power grids, and sewage systems for example."
They stole the power grids and looted the sewers? What valuable things did they have in their old Mesopotamian sewers? Was it like those sewers in Diablo II, Act II (desert town)? With treasure chests, shrines and shiny swords to be stolen? And fetid corpses stashing amulets?
Jokes aside, shoarleaf the power grids and sewage systems must be more vulnerable to bombing than looting??
Sorry, I havn't played Diablo II , but the situation was probably more akin to the Catacombs in some regions anyway.
Take powertowers as an example. ~100 of them were destroyed ny bombing, but several hundred were destroyed by local Iraqis that didn't want their newfound power to get sent back to Baghdad (I suppose this is pillaging rather then looting, though, so replace my previous post with pillaging, which can include looting!).
I'm less familiar with the sewage example, but would assume that it was not targeted by the USAF, though there might have been some side damage in it. Looters, on the otherhand, took important pumping equipment and such.
I mentioned the murder rate remembering having heard about it previously, but this is an area where statistics can be massivly distorted. The different posts inspired me to look this up on google, and it is a mess. Even the Washington D.C. murder rate is reported differently sometimes!
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
(though I supported the idea of the war, pretty much everything about it was done blatently improperly - and I am not speaking from hindsight!!!).![[Wink]](wink.gif)
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