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Author Topic: Good Luck
Jason Abbadon
Rolls with the punches.
Member # 882

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quote:
Originally posted by TSN:
"At least after being bombed the stuff is still there and might be repairable."

I'm not sure it works that way. I mean, if looters steal the stuff inside the buildings, you just replace the stuff (even if it is, say, the wiring). On the other hand, once a building has been bombed, chances are you're going to have to clear away the rubble and rebuild the whole thing.

Well, it's callus to think this way, but a bombed building will (eventually) get replaced with a NEW power plant ot sewage system or....

Omitting the human loss, of course.

--------------------
Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering.
-Aeschylus, Agamemnon

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TSN
I'm... from Earth.
Member # 31

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"Callous", actually. "Callus" is the noun.
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Jason Abbadon
Rolls with the punches.
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yeah, but the point's still valid....besides, think of how my spelling (or lack thereof) has improved your own proofreading skills.

I'm here you, man.

--------------------
Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering.
-Aeschylus, Agamemnon

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Sol System
two dollar pistol
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It doesn't necessarily follow that they'll be rebuilt at all. I mean, sure, it's possible, perhaps likely. But sometimes infrastructure goes away and doesn't come back.
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Jason Abbadon
Rolls with the punches.
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Electrical power and working sewage treatment are sure to return.
Air conditioning -being universally loved- would come after that.

Along with about a million western conviences (10,000 cell phones and towers to make them work have already been imported into the country as have laptop computers and countless music CD's).

They might hate the west, but they knowcool stuff when they see it.

--------------------
Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering.
-Aeschylus, Agamemnon

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Nim
The Aardvark asked for a dagger
Member # 205

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Leah: "the closest thing to looting you have is a melee when it emerges that due to Ikea's lax stock-checking, supplies of Hrulsta occasional tables are dangerously low."

You insensitive bastage. But you'll get yours in spades. T-minus 30-something and counting. *snort*

And I know a thing or two about looting, having been living on student stipend for the better part of a year. Also, newspaper stuphed in the clothes makes good insulation.

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Jay the Obscure
Liker Of Jazz
Member # 19

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quote:
Originally posted by Jason Abbadon:
Electrical power and working sewage treatment are sure to return.

You might find this interesting.

quote:
Iraq's basic services worse now than before war, GAO says

WASHINGTON � In a few key areas � electricity, the judicial system and overall security � the Iraq that America handed back to its residents Monday is worse off than before the war began last year, according to calculations in a new General Accounting Office report released yesterday.

The 105-page report by Congress' investigative arm offers a bleak assessment of Iraq after 14 months of U.S. military occupation. Among its findings:

� In 13 of Iraq's 18 provinces, electricity was available fewer hours per day on average last month than before the war. Nearly 20 million of Iraq's 26 million people live in those provinces.

� Only $13.7 billion of the $58 billion pledged and allocated worldwide to rebuild Iraq has been spent, with $10 billion more about to be spent. The biggest chunk of that money has been used to run Iraq's ministry operations.

� The country's court system is more clogged than before the war, and judges are frequent targets of assassination attempts.

� The new Iraqi civil-defense, police and overall security units are suffering from mass desertions, are poorly trained and ill-equipped.

� The number of what the now-disbanded Coalition Provisional Authority (CPA) called significant insurgent attacks skyrocketed from 411 in February to 1,169 in May.

The report was released the same day the CPA's inspector general issued three reports that highlighted serious management difficulties at the CPA. The reports found that the CPA wasted millions of dollars at a Hilton resort hotel in Kuwait because it didn't have guidelines for who could stay there, lost track of how many employees it had in Iraq and didn't track reconstruction projects funded by international donors to ensure they didn't duplicate U.S. projects.

Both the GAO report and the CPA report said the CPA was seriously understaffed for the gargantuan task of rebuilding Iraq. The GAO report suggested the agency needed three times more employees than it had. The CPA report said the agency believed it had 1,196 employees, when it was authorized to have 2,117. But the inspector general said CPA's records were so disorganized that it couldn't verify its actual number of employees.

Seth Borenstein, Knight Ridder Newspapers

Via Atrios

--------------------
Great is the guilt of an unnecessary war.
~ohn Adams

Once again the Bush Administration is worse than I had imagined, even though I thought I had already taken account of the fact that the Bush administration is invariably worse than I can imagine.
~Brad DeLong

You're just babbling incoherently.
~C. Montgomery Burns

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Jay the Obscure
Liker Of Jazz
Member # 19

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Here is a graphic that goes with the above story.

 -

--------------------
Great is the guilt of an unnecessary war.
~ohn Adams

Once again the Bush Administration is worse than I had imagined, even though I thought I had already taken account of the fact that the Bush administration is invariably worse than I can imagine.
~Brad DeLong

You're just babbling incoherently.
~C. Montgomery Burns

Registered: Mar 1999  |  IP: Logged
Jason Abbadon
Rolls with the punches.
Member # 882

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quote:
Originally posted by Jay the Obscure:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Jason Abbadon:
Electrical power and working sewage treatment are sure to return.

You might find this interesting.

quote:
Iraq's basic services worse now than before war, GAO says

WASHINGTON � In a few key areas � electricity, the judicial system and overall security � the Iraq that America handed back to its residents Monday is worse off than before the war began last year, according to calculations in a new General Accounting Office report released yesterday.

The 105-page report by Congress' investigative arm offers a bleak assessment of Iraq after 14 months of U.S. military occupation. Among its findings:

� In 13 of Iraq's 18 provinces, electricity was available fewer hours per day on average last month than before the war. Nearly 20 million of Iraq's 26 million people live in those provinces.

� Only $13.7 billion of the $58 billion pledged and allocated worldwide to rebuild Iraq has been spent, with $10 billion more about to be spent. The biggest chunk of that money has been used to run Iraq's ministry operations.

Yes, things DO suck.
I'm sure they're not as bad as anything post-WWII Japan or Germany, but they're definitely still worse off for the adverage Iraqi than pre-war.

Still, power will return and things will (if the new government stands and becomes a real trading partner with the UN countries) get much better (given time) than before.

As to the graphic showing power usage, I'd bet that Saddam's palaces never went without power.
Any of them.
Ever.

It's hard to be optimistic with Bush in power, but I do forsee things getting much better for the common Iraqi than ever before.
It'll take a lot of time and effort on everyone's part though: scumbags targeting their own countrymen that try to make life better-judges- leaders-doctors, etc., all undermine their own standard of living.

--------------------
Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering.
-Aeschylus, Agamemnon

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Sol System
two dollar pistol
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Or, hey, here's a crazy idea: Everyone who tries to lay cable gets their head cut off, and Iraq joins the growing ranks of failed states.
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Jay the Obscure
Liker Of Jazz
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quote:
Originally posted by Jason Abbadon:
Yes, things DO suck.
I'm sure they're not as bad as anything post-WWII Japan or Germany, but they're definitely still worse off for the adverage Iraqi than pre-war.

Still, power will return and things will (if the new government stands and becomes a real trading partner with the UN countries) get much better (given time) than before.

As to the graphic showing power usage, I'd bet that Saddam's palaces never went without power.
Any of them.
Ever.

It's hard to be optimistic with Bush in power, but I do forsee things getting much better for the common Iraqi than ever before.
It'll take a lot of time and effort on everyone's part though: scumbags targeting their own countrymen that try to make life better-judges- leaders-doctors, etc., all undermine their own standard of living.

You know, it's almost fun to watch you go off the deep end.

--------------------
Great is the guilt of an unnecessary war.
~ohn Adams

Once again the Bush Administration is worse than I had imagined, even though I thought I had already taken account of the fact that the Bush administration is invariably worse than I can imagine.
~Brad DeLong

You're just babbling incoherently.
~C. Montgomery Burns

Registered: Mar 1999  |  IP: Logged
Jay the Obscure
Liker Of Jazz
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This is interesting as well.

quote:
BRICKS, MORTAR AND MONEY
Reality Intrudes on Promises in Rebuilding of Iraq


----

More than a year into an aid effort that American officials likened to the Marshall Plan, occupation authorities acknowledge that fewer than 140 of 2,300 promised construction projects are under way. Only three months after L. Paul Bremer III, the American administrator who departed Monday, pledged that 50,000 Iraqis would find jobs at construction sites before the formal transfer of sovereignty, fewer than 20,000 local workers are employed.

----

From the start, refurbishing Iraq's dismal infrastructure and creating a thriving market economy were promoted by Bush administration officials as pillars of the American-led invasion � "the perfect complement to Iraq's political transformation," in the words of Mr. Bremer.

But more than a year later, supplies of electricity and water are no better for most Iraqis, and in some cases are worse, than they were before the invasion in the spring of 2003.

Repairs of three giant wastewater treatment plants in Baghdad, for example, are weeks or months behind, while water supply systems in the south of the country are months or even years away from functioning properly. Unrepaired bridges continue to create monstrous bottlenecks in many parts of the country.

For Iraqis, the delays have bred frustration and anger. Recent interviews in the upscale Baghdad neighborhood of Harethiya suggest that the electricity woes have, among other things, created a nation of insomniacs, sweltering in their apartments through oppressive nights.

James Glanz and Erik Eckholm, The New York Times

But we got the oil running!

From the same atricle....

quote:
In perhaps the greatest technical success, oil exports have been restored to their prewar levels, bringing in money that will pay the national budget.
Via Daily Kos.

After a year, you have to ask yourself, could this have been run better?

As is often the case in large projects, and not just those under Bush administration control, the answer is yes.

The next question you have to ask yourself is if you think the people in charge, in this case the Bush administration, deserve another term in office to continue what the've been doing.

I'll let you answer that on your own.

--------------------
Great is the guilt of an unnecessary war.
~ohn Adams

Once again the Bush Administration is worse than I had imagined, even though I thought I had already taken account of the fact that the Bush administration is invariably worse than I can imagine.
~Brad DeLong

You're just babbling incoherently.
~C. Montgomery Burns

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Jason Abbadon
Rolls with the punches.
Member # 882

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Of course things should be better....no one has said otherwise on this forum.
Billions have not been spent on rebuilding and appear to be mishandled.
But to believe that things wont get better is to concede defeat while a lot of people are working to make things better (or do you think that everyone over there is just in it to kill and torture for fun?).

Really Jay, I'd love to see you post something -anything- that's not so bleak.

There's got to be hundreds of stories of new-found freedoms and hope for a better tomorrow.

Not that those are being reported on.


At least with the oil flowing (and presumably selling to other countries) they'll be able to assist in the rebuilding themselves.

--------------------
Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering.
-Aeschylus, Agamemnon

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Jay the Obscure
Liker Of Jazz
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I don't post to make you happy.

I post things that I find interesting.

Respond if you want to, don't respond if you want to.

If you want to purposefully bring some sunshine and happiness to the situation, I'd suggest that you follow your own advice and find something to post.

As far as Iraq goes, I think that over time things will get better. I think that the situation may improve quicker if we remove the people that currently make Iraq policy from positions of power.

--------------------
Great is the guilt of an unnecessary war.
~ohn Adams

Once again the Bush Administration is worse than I had imagined, even though I thought I had already taken account of the fact that the Bush administration is invariably worse than I can imagine.
~Brad DeLong

You're just babbling incoherently.
~C. Montgomery Burns

Registered: Mar 1999  |  IP: Logged
Jason Abbadon
Rolls with the punches.
Member # 882

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quote:
Originally posted by Jay the Obscure:
As far as Iraq goes, I think that over time things will get better. I think that the situation may improve quicker if we remove the people that currently make Iraq policy from positions of power.

Now that's a constructive comment instead of the snide remark of
quote:

You know, it's almost fun to watch you go off the deep end.

Endlessly harping on the worst aspects of an already fucked up situation while ignoring any progess is no better than FOX only highlighting minor improvments.

We're all already against Bush getting re-elected anyway, you know. [Wink]

--------------------
Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering.
-Aeschylus, Agamemnon

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