"But to believe that things wont get better is to concede defeat while a lot of people are working to make things better..."
Reporting the bad things (which are the majority, or that matter) is what motivates people. If you point out all the problems, people will say "those need to be fixed". If you keep saying "looking at all the great things", people will say "oh, well, things are fine, so I guess we can ignore it". Jay never said there was absolutely nothing good in the entire state of Iraq. But the bad shit so ar outweighs the good, that the bad is what needs to be focused on.
"At least with the oil flowing (and presumably selling to other countries) they'll be able to assist in the rebuilding themselves."
That may be true. But it's also how those in charge want people to think. They point to the oil and say "this is good for Iraq and we made it happen; aren't we so awesome?". However, someone smart would look at it and say "so, the only thing you've done that benefits Iraq is the thing that benefits you, too?".
Registered: Mar 1999
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posted
On the matter of power supply, I've found contradictary information, but they are all roughly the same (the dates of the articles have an effect too). Here are some URLs:
I don't think any of these are as bad as the previously posted article states (though the recent surge in attacks may have decresed output by a little). An potentially interesting point of the power map is the Kurdish areas (north and northeast area). These were pratically independent before the war and they are still largely self-governing. Why then, do they have such a great power loss?
quote:....Danielle Pletka, who heads up the AEI national security shop, speaks for the defense:
"It's far better to live in the dark than it is to run the risk that your mother, father, brother, sister, husband or wife would be taken away never to be seen again," Pletka said.
Fair enough. On the other hand, it's not so pleasant to run the risk that your mother, father, brother, sister, husband or wife is going to be blown up, shot, or kidnapped never to be seen again either. Without wanting to minimize the horrors that Saddam inflicted on his opponents, it's very hard to underestimate the value of basic day-to-day security. Perhaps more important, the fact that the Ba'ath regime was awful is really no excuse for the CPA and the Bush administration to have made such a hash of their own efforts to run things. After all, Saddam wasn't trying to rule in an enlightened and beneficent way. Bush and Bremer want us to believe that they were. That calls for them to be held to something of a higher standard.
Are the Iraqi people better off today than they were before?
In the long run, yes and maybe.
That Saddam Hussein is captured and will go in trial is a yes. But will they come together in a democratic way to rebuild their country and avoid a strong-man in charge? That�s a maybe.
I hope they are able to accomplish great things.
quote:Originally posted by TSN:
"At least with the oil flowing (and presumably selling to other countries) they'll be able to assist in the rebuilding themselves."
That may be true. But it's also how those in charge want people to think. They point to the oil and say "this is good for Iraq and we made it happen; aren't we so awesome?". However, someone smart would look at it and say "so, the only thing you've done that benefits Iraq is the thing that benefits you, too?".
My point in saying that is not that oil is unimportant. Rather, my point was that the primacy of oil clearly comes with a cost.
Oil fields were secured, but elsewhere widespread looting took place. Oil production gets up and running quickly, but non-oil infrastructure clearly is not taken care of.
To my mind, repairing and upgrading other areas of Iraqi infrastructure such as electricity and water would have served very practical purposes of quelling the population. This in turn, might have had some positive anti-insurgency affects.
Instead, what you get at the very least, is the appearance of American self interest because oil comes head and shoulders above everything else.
-------------------- Great is the guilt of an unnecessary war. ~ohn Adams
Once again the Bush Administration is worse than I had imagined, even though I thought I had already taken account of the fact that the Bush administration is invariably worse than I can imagine. ~Brad DeLong
You're just babbling incoherently. ~C. Montgomery Burns
Registered: Mar 1999
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posted
I'm not advocating only talking about the positive changes, guys: only that there is a lot more being accomplished over there than the doom-n-gloom hat makes for intresting news.
As to power: oil plays a real part in making that reliable. Water, on the other hand should've always been in the top five things that needed to be working all the time and was not given enough priority.
Any reasoning for re-establishing the oil flow would be seen as blatant self-intrest by those looking for it, but I feel that a new, democratic Iraq needs to start with a source of income or remain the puppett of western countries (as if we wont want economic reimbursment for all this "rebuilding").
In the long run, this new unified Iraq is and will will be better off than before and a sure sign of new freedoms is the open protest of our presence there.
Weeks or months without power is certainly a burden to those used to it, but another dictatorship would be infinitely worse.
Lets just hope that Kerry wins the election, can dump all blame on Bush's administration and improve our perceieved motives for remaining in Iraq. ...and that the UN major powers will want a major part in the rebuilding process. While the fundies will hate the idea, Iraq is going to become more of an international country than it ever was.
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
Registered: Aug 2002
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"...as if we wont want economic reimbursment for all this 'rebuilding'..."
That would be like throwing a brick through someone's window, replacing the window, and then asking the owner to pay you for the new window.
Registered: Mar 1999
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That, or we'll have a niiiice new air-force base there (for future campaigns in the region).
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
Registered: Aug 2002
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posted
I remember Rumsfeld attacked someone who suggested we would have permanent bases in Iraq...he fiercfely denied that after a reporter asked the question.
Of course, we all know how much this administration keeps their promises...
posted
I always thought the logical outcome of invading Afghanistan was to have a base within easy striking range of Iraq. Then we invaded Iraq itself and made the first point moot (and we're not exactly concentration rebuilding efforts there either, I'm sad to say).
Meh. Who knows? Mabye Kerry will just pull everyone out of the region.......naaaaa!
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
Registered: Aug 2002
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