posted
Also dont forget that for your analgy to be complete, first there'd have to be thousands of citizens inprisoned (including their children), tortured and killed by the government for anything Bush did'nt like, an ethnic minority to be systematically persecuted (including gassing) and dozens (if not hundreds) of mass graves full of victims.
Then, your supposed US would have to inavde Mexico for some reason, have UN resolutions invoked against it (wich would of course not stop France, Germany and Russia from doing business with them), have the UN set up a "no fly zone" that the US would violate and shoot at plans patrolling and of course, not allow UN weapons inspectors anything like a chance to find anything.
Then mabye your analgy would not be so idiotic.
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
Registered: Aug 2002
| IP: Logged
posted
If we're going to go that far, I guess the country would have to be mostly desert. And it would have to be mainly inhabited by Muslim Arabs. And it would have to be Iraq.
Oh, by the way, we do unethically (if not illegally) imprison our own citizens with impunity. And we do torture people. Or did you miss that? I understand it was mentioned on the news a couple times.
By the way, if we didn't keep the UN stashed in our back pocket, and if we were a little country like Iraq, and if we still pulled the kind of shit we do now, do you really think we wouldn't have any sanctions against us?
Registered: Mar 1999
| IP: Logged
There really is a huge diffrence between a dictatorship like Iraq was and the US (even the version that Bush and company invision).
At least out Supreme Court has (finally) ruled that prisoners can't be held without representation or trial.
Republicans lost bigtime todaty as well: even moderate Republicans (McCain included) shot down their little hate-filled "constutional ammendment" to ban gay marriages.
So there's still plenty of hope for change within the system -that's something most Iraqis have never known. But hopefully will.
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
Registered: Aug 2002
| IP: Logged
posted
Hate-filled? Y'know, statements like that really piss me off. You do not know what motivates the people who supported that ammendment, but I can guarentee you that the vast majority of them are NOT motivated by hatred of gays, any more than those that oppose it are motivated by hatred of Christianity. Stereotypes like that are what lock us into this abysmal two-party system that we have now. Stop it please.
Somewhat on topic, did the provisional government change that flag yet?
-------------------- "This is why you people think I'm so unknowable. You don't listen!" - God, "God, the Devil and Bob"
Registered: Mar 1999
| IP: Logged
quote:Originally posted by Omega: Hate-filled? Y'know, statements like that really piss me off. You do not know what motivates the people who supported that ammendment, but I can guarentee you that the vast majority of them are NOT motivated by hatred of gays, any more than those that oppose it are motivated by hatred of Christianity. Stereotypes like that are what lock us into this abysmal two-party system that we have now. Stop it please.
Somewhat on topic, did the provisional government change that flag yet?
What would you call it when a group decalres that a minority does not deserve the same rights as themselves? If they arent motivated by hate, it's at least extreme prejeduce and bigotry.
I consider such intolerance to be a form of hate: in fact, so does the law. If someone is attacked because they're gay, it's a hate crime: somehow you feel that an attempt to limit their freedom is not.
How about this: each time you read about "banning gay marriage" just substitute "gay" with "black" and you'll see how the racisim of the past is still openly displayed on Capitol Hill.
Religon is just the excuse this time.
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
Registered: Aug 2002
| IP: Logged
posted
What would you call it when a group decalres that a minority does not deserve the same rights as themselves?
I'd call them a group that believes that a minority does not deserve the same rights as themselves, and try to find out why they believe that. Having done so, I would then know that the people in question would argue that marriage is not so much a right as a public institution with certain defined boundaries. I would thus understand that it is not a matter of hatred in most cases, though since we're talking about dozens of people it's hard to make general statements.
You are making assumptions about what these people beleive instead of actually trying to find out, and declaring them to be bad people based on those assumptions. Further, just because someone disagrees with you doesn't mean they're evil. There may be prejudiced, bigoted and intolerant people among your opponents, but if you assume that before trying to find out the truth, you force yourselt to do battle with monsters that may not exist.
-------------------- "This is why you people think I'm so unknowable. You don't listen!" - God, "God, the Devil and Bob"
Registered: Mar 1999
| IP: Logged
posted
Why are we arguing gay marriage again here? Stop now or start another thread maybe. Or heck, use this one.
quote:Originally posted by Jason Abbadon: We dont torture our own citizens though...
Right. As if it makes it ok if it's not our citizens. While you're sitting there, blip over to human rights watch or refuse and resist for some fine examples of our nations finest beating (and occasionally plunging) the crime out of our citizens. And then there is the issue of some truly scary shit which echoes the actions of a kooky group of up-and-coming krauts a few decades back. We do bad things to our own people.
The analogy with the occupied America is intended to make you uncomfortable. And of course it isn't perfect. I just feel like maybe we'd all understand the situation a little better if we put ourselves in the Iraqis shoes. I'm, how do you say? a bit not-a-fan of the Bush Administration. I think he's done horribly by his people and more-or-less ruined any sort of integrity we might have had in international politics. Furthermore I'm very concerned that he has and willcontinuetocircumvent the democratic process. I'd love to see the guy out on his tail. But if some foreign government swooped in, fucked our shit up, installed their puppet government and then not only sent my dad off to prison without explanation, but then made him lie in a pile of other naked dudes while some skank bitch took snapshots, you're damn right I'd be contemplating hucking some molotovs.
Registered: Sep 2000
| IP: Logged
quote:Originally posted by Omega: There may be prejudiced, bigoted and intolerant people among your opponents, but if you assume that before trying to find out the truth, you force yourselt to do battle with monsters that may not exist.
Oh...those monsters DO exist: Turn on Jerry Falwell sometime and hear him decree to his followers how gays are "an abomination" and you can hear the echo of Hitler in the 1930's. How much justification for violence do that small element need when they're told that their god condemns gays?
Watch a "Right to Life" rally and you'll see their leaders allude to violence just as much as at any KKK rally. Passions run from high to fanatical and violent far too often.
99% of all religous groups are peaceful despite their beliefs but in a country as large as the US, 1% is still thousands that would resort to violence.
I'd wager that's far more than even the very worst case Homeland Security estimate of terrorists in our country.
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
Registered: Aug 2002
| IP: Logged
quote:Originally posted by Lee: There are more anal guys in that last post than your average Man Train.
I bet you've done statistical research to back up that supposition.
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
Registered: Aug 2002
| IP: Logged
posted
Watch a "Right to Life" rally and you'll see their leaders allude to violence just as much as at any KKK rally.
And how many of those people had a vote on the amendment, exactly?
-------------------- "This is why you people think I'm so unknowable. You don't listen!" - God, "God, the Devil and Bob"
Registered: Mar 1999
| IP: Logged
![[Wink]](wink.gif)
Printer-friendly view of this topic
