posted
Find me a world leader that has not pissed off some group of armed extremists. I'm sure some would love to kill Maggie Thatcher even now (for example).
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
Registered: Aug 2002
| IP: Logged
posted
I recently got banned from another board for saying when Reagan died, "One down, Thatcher to go." Buncha fucking weirdoes, mostly Warsies to be honest, most popular other threads (apart from this one bewailing the death of "TEH GRAETAST PRESIDNET EVAR!!!") were one about the existence of Bigfoot, and one asking "If I get a Concealed Weapons Carry permit, what gun should I get?." Plus the usual "Michael Moore is a member of Al-Qaeda" threads of course.
This is what happens when you spend your life dressing up as Star Wars characters. If you thought plump bearded Americans in TOS costumes induced hilarity, then you've never seen a portly Stormtrooper. . .
posted
I cant tell what's worse: that you were a member of that kind of board or that you had to get banned to leave.
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
Registered: Aug 2002
| IP: Logged
posted
For some reason, whenever anyone says 'Thatcher' I suddenly think of Equitorial Guinea and start laughing...
-------------------- "I am an almost extinct breed, an old-fashioned gentleman, which means I can be a cast-iron son-of-a-bitch when it suits me." --Jubal Harshaw
Registered: Feb 2002
| IP: Logged
posted
They're a prop board. Prop fans are weird. They're a bit like Arabs or Americans - one-on-one they're very nice people, but get them together in a bunch and all hell breaks loose.
It was bad enough when Major revealed (before a Commons subcommittee hearing on the honours system) that he had been bullied by Thatcher into giving her the honour that she wanted; now I find out that her thankfully-pushing-up-the-daisies alcoholic arms-dealing fuck of a husband got an hereditary baronetcy, and her no-sense-of-direction arms-dealing fuck of a son now has the title, I was livid. The idea of him in a South African prison having his coat and shoes stolen will be one I'll cherish forever.
posted
Think that'll really happen though? Rich and powerful families rarely suffer such misfortunes.
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
Registered: Aug 2002
| IP: Logged
Actually, the South Africans do take these things quite seriously. Although it has been pointed out that the last person to overthrow a brutal dictator and replace him with a government of his choosing was Tony.
I don't really understand why so many people hate Thatcher quite as much as they do though. I don't agree with many (well, most) of the things she did but at least she was better than the corporatist, stagflated 70s. It's probably because I'm too young to really remember any of her time in power.
I do look forward to the pictures of 'Sir' Mark in prison overalls though. The thing that gets me is that they must have realised the when Dennis Thatcher died then that tosser would inherit the title. Why they didn't just give him a normal knighthood I don't know.
-------------------- "I am an almost extinct breed, an old-fashioned gentleman, which means I can be a cast-iron son-of-a-bitch when it suits me." --Jubal Harshaw
Registered: Feb 2002
| IP: Logged
posted
Maybe the whole Falkland Islands War should be revisited too. Afterall, the Brits once made the claim that the sun never sat on the British Empire. I don't recall the U.S. ever making that assertion. How many ships that have H.M.S. on them are sitting on the bottom of the south Atlantic? Surely that war was both justified and NECESSARY. How dare the Argentinians attack such a strategically placed island 200 miles from their own shores.
If Bush had NOT done ANYTHING to Iraq, the DemoNrats would be calling for his head for taking no action over Sept. 11. They would be crying "where's the justice" or "why haven't we acted". Funny how it was OK for Hill-Billy Clinton to lob Tomahawks into Iraq anytime he needed something for the news to focus on rather than his personal scandals. But that was OK cause those missles obviously didn't kill anyone nor get any Americans killed.
Am I happy that we are still in Iraq? NO. I think that the U.S., both parties, have NO CLUE about the mentality of that part of the world. An occupation isn't going to change Iraq. When we leave, I give them less than a decade before some idiot cleric seizes power and drags them back to the seventh century mentality. Fervent religious fanaticism can NEVER be reasoned with. All the "education" or "reforms" will do nothing but further incite a deepening conviction of the same blind loyalties. The truth is that it is far easier to pull someone down than it is to lift them up. Even more so when they don't WANT to be lifted up and are intent on dragging YOU down to their level or below.
Just a closing thought, has any polls or charts been made to show how many Iraqis are GLAD that we came over and nabbed Saddam and overthrew his own personal Gestapo? Has anyone asked the Iraqis people "Is your life better today than it was four years ago"? Has anyone asked the average Arab if he feels safer now that his neighboring country is no longer ran by an individual who had already invaded two other countries and used chemical weapons?
-------------------- I am the Anti-Abaddon. I build models at a scale of 2500/1
Registered: Aug 2003
| IP: Logged
Cartman
just made by the Presbyterian Church
Member # 256
posted
If Bush had NOT done ANYTHING to Iraq, the DemoNrats would be calling for his head for taking no action over Sept. 11.
Because Iraq and 9/11 had SO much to do with one another.
Has anyone asked the Iraqis people "Is your life better today than it was four years ago"?
No, but I'm sure that in ten years, when some idiotic cleric has seized power and dragged them all back to their seventh century mentality, that very question will be weighing HEAVILY on people's minds.
Registered: Nov 1999
| IP: Logged
posted
Uhm... the Falkands War was started by Argentina invading UK soil. Doesn't compare in any way to the Iraq war.
Look, it's probably better for the world that Saddam is gone. But the war was based on the false presumption that he posed a significant threat to the United States and the United Kingdom. Furthermore, there is absolutely NO proven link between Bin Laden/Al-Qaeda and Saddam, so the invasion had very little to do with 9/11 either.
quote: Has anyone asked the average Arab if he feels safer now that his neighboring country is no longer ran by an individual who had already invaded two other countries and used chemical weapons?
As opposed to the current occupation by the world's anti-Islamic superpower, that also happens to support that *other* occupying force in Palestine? You're right though. It's a whole different world out there, and it's not likely we'll understand eachother anytime soon.
quote: Maybe the whole Falkland Islands War should be revisited too. Afterall, the Brits once made the claim that the sun never sat on the British Empire. I don't recall the U.S. ever making that assertion. How many ships that have H.M.S. on them are sitting on the bottom of the south Atlantic? Surely that war was both justified and NECESSARY. How dare the Argentinians attack such a strategically placed island 200 miles from their own shores.
Uh... once the sun never did set on the Empire, so that wasn't so much a claim as an actual fact. Also it was first said about the Spanish Empire anyway so it's hardly relevant. There is simply no comparison between the Falklands war and the Second Gulf War:
Falklands: Brutal military dictatorship invades the sovreign territory of the United Kingdom, with no provocation. The Falklands had been British for 150 years, were won fairly and the population universally waned (and wants) to remain British.
Iraq 2: Brutal military dictatorship sits around being rather poor for 10 years after being defeated, occasionally hatching crackpot plots to assassinate people and frequently verbally abusing the US. It is invaded on the basis of rather spurious evidence that it may possibly have WMD (mainly chemical weapons). The fact that it does not appear to have any reliable medium range delivery systems for chemical weapons let alone long range systems that would pose a direct threat to either the UK or US.
Falklands: The French sell additional weapons to the Argentines in order to prove that they work and therefore enable them to sell more.
Iraq 2: Most of the stuff the French sold the Iraqis is now broken/destroyed/defected to Iran. They don't really bother to do anything.
Falklands: After the defeat of Argentine forces the military dictatorship is overthrown and the nation becomes a democracy again. Or as close to a democracy as South America gets anyway.
quote: If Bush had NOT done ANYTHING to Iraq, the DemoNrats would be calling for his head for taking no action over Sept. 11.
Er... Afganistan? Remember that? No proof that Iraq had anything to do with 9/11? Remember that?
quote: Has anyone asked the Iraqis people "Is your life better today than it was four years ago"?
Yes. From what I remember most of tham are relatively glad that Saddam is gone but are not impressed with the US for not managing to keep order in the country. Hence they can't really see what good it is having Coalition forces there.
quote: When we leave, I give them less than a decade before some idiot cleric seizes power and drags them back to the seventh century mentality.
Depend how long the Coalition stays and what the attitude is towards Iraq after we leave. In my view the Coalition should be prepared to be called upon to assist security forces in Iraq for at least 25 years. This is the problem with the US conception of imperialism. It doesn't involve the taking of any responsibility or any transitional stages between dictatorship and democracy.
-------------------- "I am an almost extinct breed, an old-fashioned gentleman, which means I can be a cast-iron son-of-a-bitch when it suits me." --Jubal Harshaw
Registered: Feb 2002
| IP: Logged
posted
My point is that the U.S. is being accused of imperialism. That we are somehow trying to make Iraq into a part of our "Empire". There are vocal groups that simply think ANY warfare is wrong no matter the provocation. Forget the thousands dead from terrorist activities, we should just lay down our arms to prove that we are peaceful people....while of course the bullets and bombs would be zeroing in on our peaceful intelligent country.
When an entire population has a moral tenet that you get what you can for you and your clan, there will never be peace. Those that are strong will rise to power and those that are not will HATE them and seek to destroy them.
I believe it was King George that was amazed that George Washington actually RELINQUISHED power after his presidency. (PLEASE do not take that as a denigration of the English Monarchy)
-------------------- I am the Anti-Abaddon. I build models at a scale of 2500/1
Registered: Aug 2003
| IP: Logged
![[Wink]](wink.gif)
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
Printer-friendly view of this topic
