posted
While many amenities (like constant electrictity)are not up to their standanrds under saddam, consider the sacrifices so many others have made for even the chance at freedom the Iraquis have now.
It's literally the chance of a lifetime for all of those that never knew anything but Saddam's rule.
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
Registered: Aug 2002
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posted
Well, that rather depends on who you're talking about, doesn't it? I suspect were I living in, say, Sadr City, I'd prefer the government under which random mortars weren't falling into my living room, even if that did mean my leader's son occasionally beat people to death. On the other hand, if I am Kurdish then post-Hussein Iraq is, I think, a 100% improvement. On the third hand, if you've got one, if I'm one of the people who are presently doing the mortar-lobbing, my situation is probably about the same.
Registered: Mar 1999
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quote:Originally posted by PsyLiam: Although Tim is technically correct in that "British" does not include Northern Ireland (the UK being the "United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland"), he is still being rather nitpicky, since in general conversation "Great Britain" and "UK" are used interchangably, even by the Irish. Just look at the Olympics as an example.
Also, no part of Ireland was part of the UK when Washington's presidency ended. Although George III was still king of it. But he was also monarch of a substantial chunk of the known world and unless you want to list every British possession at the time it really is simpler to stick to British.
quote:Just because we once had an empire ourselves - and it was a very nice empire, just about the biggest of all time in fact, but all good things come to an end and hey, we're cool with that - doesn't mean we don't get to point out imperialism in others.
One quarter of the Earth's surface, one-quarter of it's population at the Empire's height. All living in (relative) peace and harmony, with an impartial legal system and security against outside aggressors. I always find it slightly ironic that black men in Cape Colony could vote ten years before the Emancipation Declaration.
-------------------- "I am an almost extinct breed, an old-fashioned gentleman, which means I can be a cast-iron son-of-a-bitch when it suits me." --Jubal Harshaw
Registered: Feb 2002
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-------------------- Great is the guilt of an unnecessary war. ~ohn Adams
Once again the Bush Administration is worse than I had imagined, even though I thought I had already taken account of the fact that the Bush administration is invariably worse than I can imagine. ~Brad DeLong
You're just babbling incoherently. ~C. Montgomery Burns
Registered: Mar 1999
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posted
Yeah, I know, but black men could still vote 10 years before it. The Emancipation proclamation didn't even end slavery in the US.
-------------------- "I am an almost extinct breed, an old-fashioned gentleman, which means I can be a cast-iron son-of-a-bitch when it suits me." --Jubal Harshaw
Registered: Feb 2002
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quote:Originally posted by Wraith: Yeah, I know, but black men could still vote 10 years before it.
Certainly not slaves and they continued to have problems with old Jim Crow for a years after the ratification of the Fourteenth Amendment as well.
Not to mention present day Florida.
quote:The Emancipation proclamation didn't even end slavery in the US.
You're telling me this like I didn't know.
-------------------- Great is the guilt of an unnecessary war. ~ohn Adams
Once again the Bush Administration is worse than I had imagined, even though I thought I had already taken account of the fact that the Bush administration is invariably worse than I can imagine. ~Brad DeLong
You're just babbling incoherently. ~C. Montgomery Burns
Registered: Mar 1999
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posted
Jason- the idea that they are 'better off' in terms of living and safety is subjective at best. What you should say is that they are theoretically better off under the law. Then you have to figure out if that means anything at the moment.
In the long run, I hope it will.
Registered: Mar 1999
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"On the other hand, if I am Kurdish then post-Hussein Iraq is, I think, a 100% improvement."
My understanding is that SH had no control over Iraqi Kurdistan since the end of Gulf War I. The "no-fly zones" or whatnot.
Registered: Mar 1999
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quote:Originally posted by Wraith: Yeah, I know, but black men could still vote 10 years before it.
Certainly not slaves and they continued to have problems with old Jim Crow for a years after the ratification of the Fourteenth Amendment as well.
Not to mention present day Florida.
Voting snafus aside, Florida is pretty equal to blacks: both black and white americans are in increasing minority the further south you travel here: does wonders for race relations.
Oddly, there's still plenty of racism further north in the "bible belt".
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
Registered: Aug 2002
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quote:Originally posted by Daryus Aden: Jason- the idea that they are 'better off' in terms of living and safety is subjective at best. What you should say is that they are theoretically better off under the law. Then you have to figure out if that means anything at the moment.
-------------------- Great is the guilt of an unnecessary war. ~ohn Adams
Once again the Bush Administration is worse than I had imagined, even though I thought I had already taken account of the fact that the Bush administration is invariably worse than I can imagine. ~Brad DeLong
You're just babbling incoherently. ~C. Montgomery Burns
Registered: Mar 1999
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posted
You have a point, Tim. However, I think the point more or less stands. Hypothetical Kurdistan is in better shape without Hussein. (In fact, one could argue that northern Iraq after Gulf War 1 was already post-Hussein, I guess.)
Registered: Mar 1999
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quote:Originally posted by Daryus Aden: Jason- the idea that they are 'better off' in terms of living and safety is subjective at best. What you should say is that they are theoretically better off under the law. Then you have to figure out if that means anything at the moment.
That's sickening, Jay....and it only show that the US cant chapperone another country. At best we can advise them now- their soverignty allows them to act like asses. Mabye the first elected government will do away with this kind of prisoner abuse.
Yeah, right.
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
Registered: Aug 2002
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