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Author Topic: Iraq death toll still rising...
Harry
Stormwind City Guard
Member # 265

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Well, seeing as your 43rd elected government didn't manage to do away with that kind of prisoner abuse, I wouldn't put my money on it.

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Titan Fleet Yards | Memory Alpha

Registered: Dec 1999  |  IP: Logged
Sol System
two dollar pistol
Member # 30

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Not to get all defensive, but curse the United States for inventing the abuse of power!
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Curry Monster
Somewhere in Australia
Member # 12

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I think participation is more the issue. Invention is irrelevant.
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TSN
I'm... from Earth.
Member # 31

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We didn't invent it. We just perfected it.
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Curry Monster
Somewhere in Australia
Member # 12

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Such humility in victory. Forgive me for not seeing your justice and mercy.
Registered: Mar 1999  |  IP: Logged
Lee
I'm a spy now. Spies are cool.
Member # 393

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You'll be laughing on the other sides of your faces when the Japanese make it smaller!

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Never mind the Phlox - Here's the Phase Pistols

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Jay the Obscure
Liker Of Jazz
Member # 19

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Dan Froomkin points to this article in the New York Times.

quote:
THE RECONSTRUCTION

U.S. Intelligence Shows Pessimism on Iraq's Future

By DOUGLAS JEHL

WASHINGTON, Sept. 15 - A classified National Intelligence Estimate prepared for President Bush in late July spells out a dark assessment of prospects for Iraq, government officials said Wednesday.

The estimate outlines three possibilities for Iraq through the end of 2005, with the worst case being developments that could lead to civil war, the officials said. The most favorable outcome described is an Iraq whose stability would remain tenuous in political, economic and security terms.

"There's a significant amount of pessimism," said one government official who has read the document, which runs about 50 pages. The officials declined to discuss the key judgments - concise, carefully written statements of intelligence analysts' conclusions - included in the document.

The intelligence estimate, the first on Iraq since October 2002, was prepared by the National Intelligence Council and was approved by the National Foreign Intelligence Board under John E. McLaughlin, the acting director of central intelligence. Such estimates can be requested by the White House or Congress, but this one was initiated by the intelligence council under George J. Tenet, who stepped down as director of central intelligence on July 9, the government officials said.

----

The new estimate by the National Intelligence Council was approved at a meeting in July by Mr. [John E.] McLaughlin and the heads of the other intelligence agencies, the officials said.

Its pessimistic conclusions were reached even before the recent worsening of the security situation in Iraq, which has included a sharp increase in attacks on American troops and in deaths of Iraqi civilians as well as resistance fighters. Like the new National Intelligence Estimate, the assessments completed in January 2003 were prepared by the National Intelligence Council, which is led by Robert Hutchings and reports to the director of central intelligence. The council is charged with reflecting the consensus of the intelligence agencies. The January 2003 assessments were not formal National Intelligence Estimates, however, which means they were probably not formally approved by the intelligence chiefs.



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Great is the guilt of an unnecessary war.
~ohn Adams

Once again the Bush Administration is worse than I had imagined, even though I thought I had already taken account of the fact that the Bush administration is invariably worse than I can imagine.
~Brad DeLong

You're just babbling incoherently.
~C. Montgomery Burns

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Jason Abbadon
Rolls with the punches.
Member # 882

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But....Bush says everything okay and.....um....okay?
Mabye?

Fuck: Kerry's blowing any chance he had nad we'll be stuck with this ozo for another four years.

Greeeeeeaaaat.

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Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering.
-Aeschylus, Agamemnon

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Veers
You first
Member # 661

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Why, exactly, did the American people not go for Howard Dean? He was energetic, spoke his mind, didn't have all this Vietnam stuff, and was against the war from the start.

The public: But...he screamed!

Oh well. He'd probably be behind even if he were nominated.

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Meh

Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged
David Sands
Active Member
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Veers: My impression of why Howard Dean did not get the nomination wasn't necessarily because the American people rejected him, but that Iowans rejected him. And it wasn't a momentous event that cost him. It was a death by a thousand cuts.

A few days before the caucuses an old comment was publicized where he severely criticised Iowa's influence on presidential nominations. He lost the endorsement of the Des Moines Register to John Edwards. Kerry had a just-in-time surge in the polls the weekend before. His campaign model (attract under-30 voters) was demographically misplaced in the upper Midwest. A lot of Iowan Democrats were not as anti-war as the base from which Dean's candidacy sprang. And, lastly, what damage Dean suffered in Iowa was compounded in New Hampshire shortly thereafter which he was supposed to win because he was from a neighboring state.

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"Warfare is the greatest affair of state, the basis of life and death, the Tao to survivial or extinction. It must be thoroughly pondered and analyzed."

"...attaining one hundred victories in one hundred battles is not the pinnacle of excellence. Subjugating the enemy's army without fighting is the true pinnacle of excellence."

-Sun Tzu, The Art of War, 6th century B.C.E.

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Jay the Obscure
Liker Of Jazz
Member # 19

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Newsweek has this story:

quote:
It's Worse Than You Think
As Americans debate Vietnam, the U.S. death toll tops 1,000 in Iraq. And the insurgents are still getting stronger

----

U.S. forces are working frantically to train Iraqis for the thankless job of maintaining public order. The aim is to boost Iraqi security forces from 95,000 to 200,000 by sometime next year. Then, using a mixture of force and diplomacy, the Americans plan to retake cities and install credible local forces. That's the hope, anyway. But the quality of new recruits is debatable. During recent street demonstrations in Najaf, police opened fire on crowds, killing and injuring dozens. The insurgents, meanwhile, are recruiting, too. Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld once referred to America's foes in Iraq as "dead-enders," then the Pentagon maintained they probably numbered 5,000, and now senior military officials talk about "dozens of regional cells" that could call upon as many as 20,000 fighters.

Yet U.S. officials publicly insist that Iraq will somehow hold national elections before the end of January. The appointed council currently acting as Iraq's government under interim Prime Minister Ayad Allawi is to be replaced by an elected constitutional assembly�if the vote takes place. "I presume the election will be delayed," says the Iraqi Interior Ministry's chief spokesman, Sabah Kadhim. A senior Iraqi official sees no chance of January elections: "I'm convinced that it's not going to happen. It's just not realistic. How is it going to happen?" Some Iraqis worry that America will stick to its schedule despite all obstacles. "The Americans have created a series of fictional dates and events in order to delude themselves," says Ghassan Atiyya, director of the independent Iraq Foundation for Development and Democracy, who recently met with Allawi and American representatives to discuss the January agenda. "Badly prepared elections, rather than healing wounds, will open them."

----

It's not only that U.S. casualty figures keep climbing. American counterinsurgency experts are noticing some disturbing trends in those statistics. The Defense Department counted 87 attacks per day on U.S. forces in August�the worst monthly average since Bush's flight-suited visit to the USS Abraham Lincoln in May 2003. Preliminary analysis of the July and August numbers also suggests that U.S. troops are being attacked across a wider area of Iraq than ever before. And the number of gunshot casualties apparently took a huge jump in August. Until then, explosive devices and shrapnel were the primary cause of combat injuries, typical of a "phase two" insurgency, where sudden ambushes are the rule. (Phase one is the recruitment phase, with most actions confined to sabotage. That's how things started in Iraq.) Bullet wounds would mean the insurgents are standing and fighting�a step up to phase three.

Another ominous sign is the growing number of towns that U.S. troops simply avoid. A senior Defense official objects to calling them "no-go areas." "We could go into them any time we wanted," he argues. The preferred term is "insurgent enclaves." They're spreading. Counterinsurgency experts call it the "inkblot strategy": take control of several towns or villages and expand outward until the areas merge. The first city lost to the insurgents was Fallujah, in April. Now the list includes the Sunni Triangle cities of Ar Ramadi, Baqubah and Samarra, where power shifted back and forth between the insurgents and American-backed leaders last week. "There is no security force there [in Fallujah], no local government," says a senior U.S. military official in Baghdad. "We would get attacked constantly. Forget about it."

----

As much as ordinary Iraqis may hate the insurgents, they blame the Americans for creating the whole mess. Three months ago Iraqi troops and U.S.-dominated "multinational forces" pulled out of Samarra, and insurgents took over the place immediately. "The day the MNF left, people celebrated in the streets," says Kadhim, the Interior spokesman. "But that same day, vans arrived in town and started shooting. They came from Fallujah and other places and they started blowing up houses." Local elders begged Allawi's government to send help. "The leaders of the tribes come to see us and they say, 'Really, we are scared, we don't like these people'," Kadhim continues. "But we just don't have the forces at the moment to help them." Last week negotiators reached a tentative peace deal, but it's not likely to survive long. The Iraqi National Guard is the only homegrown security force that people respect, and all available ING personnel are deployed elsewhere.

*Emphasis added.

Via The American Prospect Online.

Which calls to mind this quote quote:

quote:
My belief is we will, in fact, be greeted as liberators.

Dick Cheney, Sunday, 14 September 2003 on Meet The Press

Based on that little piece of incompetence, I do not see how anyone would vote to let this Administration serve another 4 years.

--------------------
Great is the guilt of an unnecessary war.
~ohn Adams

Once again the Bush Administration is worse than I had imagined, even though I thought I had already taken account of the fact that the Bush administration is invariably worse than I can imagine.
~Brad DeLong

You're just babbling incoherently.
~C. Montgomery Burns

Registered: Mar 1999  |  IP: Logged
Lee
I'm a spy now. Spies are cool.
Member # 393

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Because right-wingers don't believe any of it. They know they've won the war in Iraq because their president says so. All reports of the worsening situation grab their attention only as proof that the media are all liberals.

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Never mind the Phlox - Here's the Phase Pistols

Registered: Jul 2000  |  IP: Logged
Jason Abbadon
Rolls with the punches.
Member # 882

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quote:
Originally posted by Veers:
Why, exactly, did the American people not go for Howard Dean? He was energetic, spoke his mind, didn't have all this Vietnam stuff, and was against the war from the start.

The public: But...he screamed!

Oh well. He'd probably be behind even if he were nominated.

Kerry had more pull with the Dem party and more cash behind him.....connections and money rule the Democrats just as much as the republicans, make no mistake.

The "yell" thing was just a dorky moment that the press jumped on like the vultures they are.

Mabye the Dems thought they were choosing wisely when Kerry was using the words "Kennedy" and "Viet Nam" in every interview/speach/sentence.

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Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering.
-Aeschylus, Agamemnon

Registered: Aug 2002  |  IP: Logged
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