posted
I think Kerry really did well: far better than Bush. Bush hesitated and seemed on the defensive several times...nervous even at moments.
Hope springs eternal in my chest.
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
Registered: Aug 2002
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posted
My take was that it was not a runaway victory for Kerry, but he edged out by a hair by using so many facts. Bush looked exasperated like a lot of conservatives do with liberals. But he still looked resolute enough. Bottom electoral line is that Kerry still needed a near-knockout punch to pull off a victory in about five key states. I think the debate rules constrained the candidates enough that most of the unpredictability was driven out (e.g., they were not allowed to say the word "Vietnam"). I'm not convinced Kerry's had it tonight. He's got to take off and keep off 5% of Bush's total until Tuesday to have won. We'll know the result in the next 48 hours. For the moment, I think it is a functional draw.
-------------------- "Warfare is the greatest affair of state, the basis of life and death, the Tao to survivial or extinction. It must be thoroughly pondered and analyzed."
"...attaining one hundred victories in one hundred battles is not the pinnacle of excellence. Subjugating the enemy's army without fighting is the true pinnacle of excellence."
-Sun Tzu, The Art of War, 6th century B.C.E.
Registered: May 1999
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posted
Hmmmm, didn't have a chance to see it. But this quote from the cnn article seems kinda funny.
quote: And an Annenberg Election Survey released Tuesday found that only about half of those asked could correctly match the candidate with his position on several policy issues.
C'mon. Try to keep up people, its a 50% chance guess and half the people got it wrong?
Registered: Mar 1999
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posted
It looks to me like Kerry won, but it was close. I think that the thing Kerry got BUsh on was when Bush was saying "We were attacked on September 11, and we took the appropriate action." Kerry responded by saying it was al-Qaeda, not Saddam, that attacked us. Bush said, "First of all, I know it was Osama bin Laden that attacked us."
Gotcha. We'll wait and see if Kerry can keep it up.
-------------------- "Warfare is the greatest affair of state, the basis of life and death, the Tao to survivial or extinction. It must be thoroughly pondered and analyzed."
"...attaining one hundred victories in one hundred battles is not the pinnacle of excellence. Subjugating the enemy's army without fighting is the true pinnacle of excellence."
-Sun Tzu, The Art of War, 6th century B.C.E.
Registered: May 1999
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posted
That's almost as inanne as the CNN poll of ten clueless dolts with buzzers numbered 1-10. Anyone else see that? The blonde woman that said she trusted Bush's military experience to lead the country needs to be de-lobotomized somehow.
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
Registered: Aug 2002
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quote:What to say about Bush? Let's get the compliments out of the way. When asked to skewer Kerry's character, he was classy and genuine. His anecdote about the war widow was heartfelt and poignant. He had a few good lines - and skewered Kerry easily on the $87 billion. He also kicked Kerry's elegant Brahmin butt on the coalition point, reminding him that Poland exists. (Kerry was effective, however, in detailing the relatively small contribution of most of the allies. But why oh why did he not mention the obvious parallel of the vast coalition Bush's father put together for the first Gulf War? If I were a debate judge - and I've had my fair share of debate experience - I would have flunked Kerry on the spot.) The few laugh-out-loud Bushisms - especially the point about the insurgents fighting "vociferously" - were worth the price of admission. On the more general point about alliances, Bush did well - espcially on the International Criminal Court, and on the need to base foreign policy fundamentally on the defense of the American people. More Americans will agree with him on this than with Kerry. Still, there were major weaknesses. If you believe, as I do, that the Iraq war is beginning to spiral downward, Bush was not reassuring. He seemed as out of it as ever. When Kerry rightly pointed out the failure of Bush to revamp the CIA or to secure Soviet nuclear material, Bush simply and sadly responded that every morning some guy comes in and briefs him on national security. Now I feel better. And you don't want to be the president who is forced to say, "Of course I know Osama bin Laden attacked us." Moreover, his fundamental critique of Kerry - that by criticizing the war, he had made himself unworthy to be commander-in-chief - was dumb and border-line offensive. It implies that if you've ever criticized the president's war conduct, you cannot succeed him in office. Huh? By that logic, the only credible alternative to Bush is someone who has agreed with him every inch of the way. Memo to Bush: we live in a democracy.
posted
I think Mr. Kerry did very well and came in with a solid victory in the debate.
He was calm and made his points well.
On the other hand, Mr. Bush was defensive and stumbling.
The very picture of his presidency.
Most of the night I felt like I was watching the flash cards in Mr. Bush's brain actually flipping to find the right word or phrase he'd been coached about. And while that sorting process took place, he stood there mumbling random things until the caught an odd phrase or bit of talking point to say.
All in all, a good night for Mr. Kerry and another bad public performance for Mr. Bush.
-------------------- Great is the guilt of an unnecessary war. ~ohn Adams
Once again the Bush Administration is worse than I had imagined, even though I thought I had already taken account of the fact that the Bush administration is invariably worse than I can imagine. ~Brad DeLong
You're just babbling incoherently. ~C. Montgomery Burns
Registered: Mar 1999
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posted
YOu notice kerry taking notes on how to respond whenever Bush was speaking? Very nice: he found weaknesses in BUsh's coments each time and nailed him on several points.
Kerry flubed a few times on facts, mainly the "there's WMD crossing the border every day" line. That was odd. As was Kerry's assertation that N.Korea obtained nuclear weapons "on Bush's watch" when most have suapected Kim had them mid-Clinton administartsion....something Bush rebuked without naming Clinton (though mabye the "no Clinton" was part of their overly-wrought agreement).
I'm suprised that Kerry did not bring up the lack of respect the other world leaders have shown Bush: Bush opened himslf up to critique several times by taling about "I speak to the other world leaders all the time" bit and on how to "handle Kim".
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
Registered: Aug 2002
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I've just seen a few clips on the news and Bush seemed to be really struggling to get out a coherent sentence at times. Didn't think much of him at all. But Kerry didn't seem to actually get really stuck into Bush.
-------------------- "I am an almost extinct breed, an old-fashioned gentleman, which means I can be a cast-iron son-of-a-bitch when it suits me." --Jubal Harshaw
Registered: Feb 2002
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posted
At least it serves the purpose of stimulating political debate. Everyone I've spoken to today (four only, but the day's young) think Kerry did very well.
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
Registered: Aug 2002
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quote:Originally posted by Harry: Bush was no worse than normal. But it seems that's all it takes to be President of the US.
For some reason, that's all it seems to take for this one...the standards for him seem to have been greatly lowered.
Considersome of Mr. Bush's mis-speakings from the debate.
-------------------- Great is the guilt of an unnecessary war. ~ohn Adams
Once again the Bush Administration is worse than I had imagined, even though I thought I had already taken account of the fact that the Bush administration is invariably worse than I can imagine. ~Brad DeLong
You're just babbling incoherently. ~C. Montgomery Burns
Registered: Mar 1999
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posted
Most of the night I felt like I was watching the flash cards in Mr. Bush's brain actually flipping to find the right word or phrase he'd been coached about. And while that sorting process took place, he stood there mumbling random things until the caught an odd phrase or bit of talking point to say.
Funny, I also look that way too while I'm talking about serious issues and have to think about what I'm saying before I say it. Criticizing a politician on his public speaking skills is a stupid way to decide who won a debate. Of course, a lot of people seem to do exactly that. This is why televised debates are of little use. They should just kick e-mails back and forth constantly, or post to a message board or something. You'd get far more information about what each cantidate actually believes that way.
Registered: Mar 1999
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quote:George W. Bush seems *much* better in the transcript than he was in the debate. His deer-in-the-headlights looks, his I-can't-think-of-anything-else-to-say silences, and his I-have-no-coherent-thoughts pauses are all left out of the transcript. Even so, he looks pretty bad here.
So:
It is a legitimate criticism of a debate.
It�s only part of the reason why I think Mr. Bush lost. It�s not nearly enough for the President of the United States to go into a public forum and when asked to defend his policy, to simply repeat �it�s hard work� over and over again and expect that to work.
I�m pretty much tired of the �poor Mr. Bush, he�s just a bad public speaker� line of argument because to me, his performance in the debate pretty much typifies Mr. Bush�s administration...stumbling, petulant, incoherent, confused, and lacking a solid process.
-------------------- Great is the guilt of an unnecessary war. ~ohn Adams
Once again the Bush Administration is worse than I had imagined, even though I thought I had already taken account of the fact that the Bush administration is invariably worse than I can imagine. ~Brad DeLong
You're just babbling incoherently. ~C. Montgomery Burns
Registered: Mar 1999
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