Topic: Now YOU can have your very own Living Will!!!
Saltah'na
Chinese Canadian, or 75% Commie Bastard.
Member # 33
posted
Well, given the recent events from the Terri Schiavo case, someone sent me this handcrafted living will. I like it. I think I'll print a copy and file it in my personal stuff.....
I, _________________________ (fill in the blank), being of sound mind and body, do not wish to be kept alive indefinitely by artificial means. Under no circumstances should my fate be put in the hands of peckerwood politicians who couldn't pass ninth-grade biology if their lives depended on it.
If a reasonable amount of time passes and I fail to sit up and ask for a cold beer,(or a dish of ice cream) it should be presumed that I won't ever get better. When such a determination is reached, I hereby instruct my spouse, children and attending physicians to pull the plug, reel in the tubes and call it a day.
Under no circumstances shall the members of the Legislature enact a special law to keep me on life-support machinery. It is my wish that these boneheads mind their own damn business, and pay attention instead to the health, education and future of the millions of Americans who aren't in a permanent coma.
Under no circumstances shall any politicians butt into this case, and I don't care how many fundamentalist votes they're trying to scrounge for their run for the presidency in 2008, it is my wish that they play politics with someone else's life and leave me alone to die in peace.
I couldn't care less if a hundred religious zealots send e-mails to legislators in which they pretend to care about me. I don't know these people, and I certainly haven't authorized them to preach and crusade on my behalf. They should mind their own business, too.
If any of my family goes against my wishes and turns my case into a political cause, I hereby promise to come back from the grave and make his or her existence a living hell.
Signed
_____________________________
-------------------- "And slowly, you come to realize, it's all as it should be, you can only do so much. If you're game enough, you could place your trust in me. For the love of life, there's a tradeoff, we could lose it all but we'll go down fighting...." - David Sylvian FreeSpace 2, the greatest space sim of all time, now remastered!
Registered: Mar 1999
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The Fundies would just call you "irrational" for not agreeing with their POV and proceed to turn your death into a circus anyway...as long as there's a headline in there for them.
Particularly that fucker Jesse Jackson.
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
Registered: Aug 2002
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posted
Personally, I find it amusing that the only reason this was ever a question is because there WASN'T a will. No reason to be so vehement about it if there is one, because then it's a non-issue.
But that's just me.
Registered: Mar 1999
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It's a sad, ironic thing that everyone was soooo concerned about Shiavo starving to death after she was brain damaged from a heart attack that was caused from her eating disorder (anorexia, I believe).
No one wants to talk about the cause of her condition: only the final outcome.
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
Registered: Aug 2002
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posted
No one wants to talk about the cause of her condition: only the final outcome.
Oh, I know I never hear anything about the horrors of eating disorders. Ever. Except several times a semester, but aside from that, never.
That's an odd slippery-slope argument, Jason. Schivo didn't leave any indication that she didn't want to be kept alive and treated, so people raised hell when someone else made those decisions for her. I fail to see a path that leads from there to people raising hell when someone DOES leave clear indication of their wishes on the matter. They're two completely seperate cases, and while it's not a topic of frequent conversation in my universe, I haven't heard anything said that indicates the two are equivalent in any way.
-------------------- "This is why you people think I'm so unknowable. You don't listen!" - God, "God, the Devil and Bob"
Registered: Mar 1999
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Saltah'na
Chinese Canadian, or 75% Commie Bastard.
Member # 33
posted
Well, what clearly is being expressed here is the frustration that both the Federal and State governments interfered in a private family matter. Polls taken before and after Schiavo died say that the government had no right to intervene in this dispute. That being said, and given Omega's comments, I'd like to see what would happen if a similar case were to occur but this time, the patient DID have a living will that DID state that she did not want to be kept alive by artificial means.
Given recent events, I'd bet that it would happen.
-------------------- "And slowly, you come to realize, it's all as it should be, you can only do so much. If you're game enough, you could place your trust in me. For the love of life, there's a tradeoff, we could lose it all but we'll go down fighting...." - David Sylvian FreeSpace 2, the greatest space sim of all time, now remastered!
Registered: Mar 1999
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posted
actually - we have to remember too - that her parents wanted to keep her alive - and that this whole mess was because they felt a need to selfishly cling to the hope that she may, by some fricken miracle snap out of it...
You can harp on the politicians all you want - but this whole mess started with her parents disagreeing with her husband!
Now being devil's advocate...
the parents felt that Shiavo had no right to rule in decision concerning their daughter because he'd 'moved on' .. had children with another woman - and to them, he effectively forfeit his rights to be her legal guardian... THAT is where the debate should be...
It's only sad that the politicians had to come into this at all in order to try to stop the squabbling... Where the politicians went wrong was they used this woman to further some hidden agendas (or not so hidden, i suppose).
In the end, the politicians succeeded in doing nothing to help her ... the courts were right to shoot down President Bush's retarded bill !! (whoring for votes much?).
People could say her husband starved her to death all they want - but the reality that everyone hates to think about - is the fact that; that's what she was doing before she had the heart-attack which deprived her brain of oxygen for so long that she became a vegetable... It's too bad that her family had to pick up the pieces.. no doubt everyone who was/is involved in this case has had a terrible 15 years.
anyhow.. i've tried to see it from both sides .. in the end - the parents should have loved their daughter enough to let her go a long time ago - and avoided this whole circus show! and so the final line of this 'Living will" in the orginal post:
quote:If any of my family goes against my wishes and turns my case into a political cause, I hereby promise to come back from the grave and make his or her existence a living hell.
-- i believe is the best message in the whole thing. but of course, she didn't have a living will .. so the only outcome was a polically charged nightmare.
quote:Originally posted by Omega: No one wants to talk about the cause of her condition: only the final outcome.
Oh, I know I never hear anything about the horrors of eating disorders. Ever. Except several times a semester, but aside from that, never.
That's an odd slippery-slope argument, Jason. Schivo didn't leave any indication that she didn't want to be kept alive and treated, so people raised hell when someone else made those decisions for her.
I hear ya...but just think how much positive stuff might have come from the press focusing on victims that can still be helped... The Right has tried to ignore Shivo's self-destructive behavior as they make her out to be a victim of her husband (a guy that still loved her enough to look out for what she wanted for over a decade).
Living in the epicenter of this fiasco (why always south Florida!?!), I've heard a rightwing radio talk host refer to Micheal Shiavo's childern as "bastards" and he was interviewed by a local TV station where they let him say it on the 10 O'Clock news! Then the local churches got involved and started calling Miachael Shiavo a "sinner" and "murderer".
That's when Shiavo had to hire bodyguards and pull his kids from school/after school activities: he started getting death threats after the church-goes got rilled up.
Then Jesse Jackson got involved and made it all even far worse...to the point where he's politcally pressured some buerocrat at Family Services to send agents down to the hospice and insert a new feedng tube (dispite the court order to remove it). Local cops sent those bozos packing: one said "unless you've got a federal judge with you, you're not getting in here".
Man, if there's any law that should be enacted from all of this, it that any case involving "right to live/die" that goes before a judge should have a gag order slapped on it from the outset, to protect everyone that's actually involved.
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
Registered: Aug 2002
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posted
The Right has tried to ignore Shivo's self-destructive behavior as they make her out to be a victim of her husband (a guy that still loved her enough to look out for what she wanted for over a decade).
Do we have any reason to think it WAS what she wanted, besides his word? I'm not saying he's a bad guy, but he isn't necessarily the hero here either. There isn't enough information to determine, thus the opinion that we as a society should err on the side of life.
-------------------- "This is why you people think I'm so unknowable. You don't listen!" - God, "God, the Devil and Bob"
Registered: Mar 1999
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WizArtist II
"How can you have a yellow alert in Spacedock? "
Member # 1425
posted
Could a person who drank and smoked excessively ALSO be considered as having "self-destructive behaviour"? How about an individual that catches AIDS because they kept poking things that didn't belong to them without protection?
-------------------- There are 10 types of people in the world...those that understand Binary and those that don't.
Registered: Nov 2004
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posted
I'd prefer to stay at least 100 feet from this thread, but: a vast number of illnesses can be "blamed," at least in part, on their sufferer. You could have avoided that cold if you had washed your hands more and eaten more fresh fruits and vegetables.
But for the most part we, as a society, don't pursue this sort of claim, partly because these links are all probabalistic. You'll never be able to point at the one cigarette that gave you cancer. And some people will have unprotected sex with large numbers of partners and never get an STD. Medicine is all about being "unfair" when it comes to the natural progression of cause and effect, something most of us should be very grateful for.
Registered: Mar 1999
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Saltah'na
Chinese Canadian, or 75% Commie Bastard.
Member # 33
posted
quote:Originally posted by Omega:
Do we have any reason to think it WAS what she wanted, besides his word? I'm not saying he's a bad guy, but he isn't necessarily the hero here either.
I'd have to agree with Omega here, but not because his opinion is to "err on the side of life".
I've heard news stories that Michael Schiavo had denied access to Terri's parents to see their daughter. I've also heard news stories that Michael forbade Terri's parents in any say with regards to funeral arrangements. And I've also heard news stories that Michael Schiavo forbade Terri's parents to go to their daughter's funeral.
Not very good things to do when you need to mend fences in this delicate matter. I'd have to say that Michael's conduct was absolutely horrid during the days leading up to Terri's death. But that does not mean what Terri said before her heart attack was not true.
-------------------- "And slowly, you come to realize, it's all as it should be, you can only do so much. If you're game enough, you could place your trust in me. For the love of life, there's a tradeoff, we could lose it all but we'll go down fighting...." - David Sylvian FreeSpace 2, the greatest space sim of all time, now remastered!
Registered: Mar 1999
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"I've heard news stories that Michael Schiavo had denied access to Terri's parents to see their daughter. I've also heard news stories that Michael forbade Terri's parents in any say with regards to funeral arrangements. And I've also heard news stories that Michael Schiavo forbade Terri's parents to go to their daughter's funeral."
Personally, I'd probably have done the same thing. I find the parents' actions more despicable than the husband's.
And, actually, I seem to recall that he relented on those "forbiddings", aside from the funeral arrangements one.
Registered: Mar 1999
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posted
Actually, Miacheal Schiavo only denied the parentys access after they said to the press that they'd insert a feeding tube themselves if it came to that.
Really, what else could he do? The parent's lawyer as already slandering both him and his new family in the press every possible chance and several protestors had already been arrested trying to barge their way in or to block him from entering to see his wife (something he did weekly for a decade).
I cant really blame him for telling the parents to blow...cruel as that is.
Several of Terry Schiavo's friends and former colleagues came forward to testify that Terry did not favor being kept alive through artifical means (it seems there was some discussion over another person in a coma, back before Terry Sciavo's heart attack and she had made her wishes clear- also, it seems that Terry Schiavo was not so devoutly adherant to the Church's- or her parent's- POV on a lot of things).
Whatever side you fall on with regards to the morality involved, I think that the law was (finally) served as it must be- as seperate from political or religous considerations. In spite of the machenations of the Religous Right, the Bush Brothers and the ratings frenzy of the press.
I hope Michael Schiavo gets some well earned anominity with his family.
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
Registered: Aug 2002
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