posted
I seriously don't know, but I'd like to hear everyone's views. My friend asks me this same question from time to time, and I honestly can't answer him. I know that when Martin Luther started the whole Protestant movement because of the corruption that was in the Catholic church, but now, at the turn of the millenium, is that the case anymore?
The First One
A lovely little thinker, but a bugger when he's pissed
Member # 35
posted
Oh, God. I just saw "Monty Python's The Meaning Of Life" featuring the song "Every Sperm Is Sacred" too. I'lll try not to quote the whole sequence. . .
Registered: Mar 1999
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posted
You'd probably have to pick a specific Protestant religion, as there are so many and they're all different to some extent or another.
I love the "every sperm is sacred" song.
From my own reading of the thing, I've come to the conclusion that the whole anti-birth-control stance which is usually justified by the Bibblical story of Onan (IIRC, God wanted Onan to make babies with his late brother's wife, but Onan didn't want to, so he "spilled his seed on the ground," and God killed him.), is a gross misinterpretation. God didn't slag Onan because he wasted his stuff, He slagged him because he DISOBEYED! (as the Biblical OT God seems to be fond of slagging people for.)
Pretty petty, if you ask me.
------------------ 'In every country and in every age the priest has been hostile to Liberty; he is always in allegiance to the despot, abetting his abuses in return for protection of his own." ---- Thomas Jefferson
posted
When you invent the game, you make the rules, but I digress.
I can't provide dates (I'm doing this from memory), but I believe that the original intent of the protestant movement was not a separation from the Catholic church but a call for reformation. The church had fallen into a number of objectionable practices, the only one of which I can recall at this moment being the sale of indulgences.
An indulgence was like a "get out of hell free" card. You paid a priest (or other official of the church) and could receive exemption for any number of sins. Some proactive individuals even bought indulgences "ahead of need", as it were, just like someone today might buy condoms before going on a hot date. The problem of indulgences (apart from the dubious nature of the whole business) was that the more you could pay, the more you could get away with.
When confronted by these protests and calls for reform, the church did not make any move to look into these accusations, but rather, closed ranks, though not universally. Martin Luther was a monk (or perhaps a priest, it's been a while since I looked this stuff up) who was protesting the corruption in the church, and was excommunicated for his troubles. The party line was that the church was infallible, and it was the sole entity capable of declaring anything corrupt or not. In its own case, the church decided that the protesters were heretical at best, and excommunicated a few key individuals in the belief that this would shut the rabble up so they could get back to business as usual.
Confronted with the threat of excommunication, a lot of people shut up and toed the party line. A lot of other people said, in effect: "Screw you, then!" and founded their own church based on essentially the same principles as the Catholic church, but including what reforms they thought were necessary. One reform was that church services were eventually done in the native language of the people attending, rather than Latin. Confession was abolished, since a corrupt priest could (and often did) misuse the information divulged by the confessor, and the prohibition against priests marrying (originally instituted to eliminate the temptation to make a holy office a hereditary position) was lifted.
I don't recall when the term: "Protestant" was coined, but I'll bet that it wasn't originally an English term. I also don't recall if the Anglican church is considered a protestant church or not.
Someone with more information is invited to fill in the blanks and correct errors in the above.
posted
As I understand it, the Anglican Church is Protestant, although it shares many of the traditions with the Catholic Church. All subsequent Protestant denominations branched off from the Anglican Church. I'm not really sure, though, since the whole thing is a bloody confusing mess, and I don't really trust Churches since they are often more motivated by money than faith. This is why I simply call myself Christian and avoid Church, for the most part. I'd rather keep my individuality, thank you.
------------------ "I promise you, Wilma, that not one man on this force will rest until the criminal scum that did this are behind bars. Now let's go get a bite to eat." - Frank Drebbin, Detective Lieutenant in Police Squad
posted
Jaresh's comments are easier to adress, it is complete wrong that all Protestant religions started from the Anglican Church, actually King Henry VIII was a in opposition of the Protestant Rebellion (that is the Catholic Church called it at the time). Ok but Henry wanted a male aire so he need to get his marriage annulled, however the Catholic Church refused (the only way it could have been annulled if they didn't have sex during the marriage, since he had a child from the marriage it was highly unlikely ). So he formed his own church just to let him have a divorce, Seriously.
I will respond to Baloo's comments tomorrow, cuz it's too late today.
------------------ Pinky we will so rule the world...as soon as I figure out what step 2 is.
------------------ "I consider the foundation of the Constitution as laid on this ground: That "all powers not delegated to the United States, by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States or to the people . . ." To take a single step beyond the boundaries thus specially drawn around the powers of Congress is to take possession of a boundless field of power, no longer susceptible of any definition." - Thomas Jefferson to George Washington, 1791
posted
*The Dark Warrior slowly awakens for his slumber*
Ahhh, Now I can finally comment on the pratice of indulegences.
The guy who pissed Luther off was a guy named Tindal (sp) who sold indulegences to help pay for the new Saint Peter's Basllistic in Rome. When he sold them however he lied and said that instead telling them what a indulenegence actually is he said it was a get out of Purgatory free card (for those who don't know the Catholic idea of Purgatory it is a period before getting to heaven were the saved going to heaven are cleased from all of there imperfections). However that was completely and totally wrong and even blasmpous, here is what an Indulegence is and isn't. (BTW the following is from an online version of the Catholic Encyclopedia)
WHAT AN INDULGENCE IS
An indulgence is the extra-sacramental remission of the temporal punishment due, in God's justice, to sin that has been forgiven, which remission is granted by the Church in the exercise of the power of the keys, through the application of the superabundant merits of Christ and of the saints, and for some just and reasonable motive.
WHAT AN INDULGENCE IS NOT
To facilitate explanation, it may be well to state what an indulgence is not. It is not a permission to commit sin, nor a pardon of future sin; neither could be granted by any power. It is not the forgiveness of the guilt of sin; it supposes that the sin has already been forgiven. It is not an exemption from any law or duty, and much less from the obligation consequent on certain kinds of sin, e.g., restitution; on the contrary, it means a more complete payment of the debt which the sinner owes to God. It does not confer immunity from temptation or remove the possibility of subsequent lapses into sin. Least of all is an indulgence the purchase of a pardon which secures the buyer's salvation or releases the soul of another from Purgatory. The absurdity of such notions must be obvious to any one who forms a correct idea of what the Catholic Church really teaches on this subject.
A "remission of the temporal punishment due... to sin that has been forgiven... through the application of the superabundant merits of Christ and of the saints, and for some just and reasonable motive."
Does that mean that you're going to be punished by the church for a sin that God's forgiven you for unless you get an indulgence?
------------------ "I consider the foundation of the Constitution as laid on this ground: That "all powers not delegated to the United States, by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States or to the people . . ." To take a single step beyond the boundaries thus specially drawn around the powers of Congress is to take possession of a boundless field of power, no longer susceptible of any definition." - Thomas Jefferson to George Washington, 1791
Orion Syndicate
He's not the messiah, he's a very naughty boy!
Member # 25
posted
I think the basic beliefs of both sides are the same, but each side is being different to justify their existence. I think its sad when Protestants bash Catholics and vice versa because what they're doing in the end is attacking Christianity.
I'm not attacking, I'm just pointing it out because the same situation also exists in Islam with the Shi'ites and the Sunni's. The thing that needs to be addressed is that they're both the same religion, be it different sects, so just accept each other as Christians or Muslims etc and not attack each other for being different sects.
I think that it's extremely sad that that people can't look beyond this, especially when we're supposed to be 'civilised'.
------------------ Do business with us, or we'll ruin you.
posted
From what I can remember of what my sister has told me(she's a Lutheran Pastor), I think Baloo has it pretty much right. She told me that Martin Luther, while drunk, refered to the Pope as the antichrist. Hung over, but sober, he stuck to his words the next day. Got in some trouble over that one.
------------------ "One Tequila, Two Tequila, Three Tequila, Floor". George Carlin
). So he formed his own church just to let him have a divorce, Seriously.
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