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Author Topic: Adam and Eve?
First of Two
Better than you
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Just out of curiosity, have any of the Creationist bigwigs been able to come up with a way that Adam and Eve and their kids could have populated the whole world without:

A: Breaking the incest taboo, (okay, I suppose God might not have gotten around to banning it at the time)

or

B: Inbreeding, and all the resultant genetic deficiencies?

I mean, if you've ever seen the results of too much "relative closeness," especially over several generations, you know that what you get are NOT generally healthy kids who are adapted to making coherent speech, much less surviving in the wilderness. And they certainly don't live several hundred years.

Does this mean that God was constantly tampering with the genetic makeup of Adam and Eve's kids and grandkids and great-grandkids, just making sure nothing goes wrong?

And if THAT'S true... why'd He stop?

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"When we turn our back on our principles, we stop being human." -- Janeway, "Equinox"


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Omega
Some other beginning's end
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I don't recall God banning incest. He didn't ban polygamy, either, but most people assume he did.

There's no way to know about the genetics problem. For all we know, God created wives for all of Adam and Eve's sons from their ribs. Maybe there was a problem, and it was just never mentioned. Adam and Eve's genes had to be special in some way, to contain all the genetic information we have today. All the genes for skin, hair, and eye color, height, metabolism, and everything else was there to begin with. I've always wondered what an analasys of Adam and Eve's genetic structure would be like. Or, even better, compare Jesus' to Mary's.

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HEAD KNIGHT: We are now... no longer the Knights Who Say 'Ni'.
KNIGHTS OF NI: Ni! Shh!
HEAD KNIGHT: Shh! We are now the Knights Who Say 'Ecky-ecky-ecky-ecky-pikang-zoop-boing-goodem-zoo-owli-zhiv'.
RANDOM: Ni!


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Jubilee
...complete with cherries!
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The Old Testament is more a collection of history than anything ... there are a few chapters on what was good and bad to do as a christian (Proverbs, if I recall correctly) .. but you've got more stories about different people than anything. I mean, that's what Job, and Esther, and all the Kings, and etc are about.
The simple fact is, History written by a few people IS NOT ACCURATE. Sure, it's put in "The Bible", and therefore "holy writ" .. but the problem is that what people took for granted was never written about, and therefore we have no idea about ANY of those things. The problem of Adam and Eve was probably so simple to solve that no one ever wrote about it.

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"Elevator to hell, going up." - What Dreams May Come


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Sol System
two dollar pistol
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Uh...your genetic code contains instructions for all those things too, Omega. So does mine. Plus a rather large amount of stuff we don't even use.

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"I am just a worthless liar. I am just an imbecile. I will only complicate you. Trust in me and fall as well."
--
Tool


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Baloo
Curmudgeon-in-Chief
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If you accept the basic supposition that God's work is perfect, inbreeding isn't a problem. There are no genetic defects (initially) to pass along to subsequent generations.

Of course, the above supposition implies that "perfect" people can make bad choices. Hmmm... that part doesn't contradict my experience in the least.

--Baloo

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I'm diagonally parked in a parallel universe.
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Omega
Some other beginning's end
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Don't forget all that prophecy, Jubes.

------------------
HEAD KNIGHT: We are now... no longer the Knights Who Say 'Ni'.
KNIGHTS OF NI: Ni! Shh!
HEAD KNIGHT: Shh! We are now the Knights Who Say 'Ecky-ecky-ecky-ecky-pikang-zoop-boing-goodem-zoo-owli-zhiv'.
RANDOM: Ni!


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Feste
Ex-Member


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One day the Lord came to Adam and said, "I've got some good news and some bad news."

Adam said, "Give me the good news first."

The Lord explained, "I've created two new organs for you. One is called a brain. It will allow you to create new things, solve problems, and have intelligent conversations with Eve. The other organ I have for you is called a penis. It will give you great physical pleasure and allow you to reproduce and populate this planet. Eve will be very happy that you now have this organ to give her children."

Adam, very excited, exclaimed, "These are great gifts you have given to me. What could possibly be bad news after such great tidings?"

The Lord looked upon Adam and said with great sorrow, "You will never be able to use these two gifts at the same time."

From "The Door: The World's Pretty Much Only Religious Satire Magazine."

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"There comes a time in every woman's life when the only thing that helps is a glass of champagne."

Bette Davis - Old Acquaintance


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First of Two
Better than you
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Baloo.. how many absolutely perfect people have you had firsthand experience of?

That does bring up a salient point, though.. if Adam and Eve were created perfect, how could they have done such a stupid thing as eat the "apple?"

(Of course, Lucifer was perfect to start with, too...)

Apparently perfect means something different now. "perfect" to most folks would include not erring, not making incorrect decisions, and certainly not gullible enough to listen to some stupid serpent rather than your boss.

Of course, if God is perfect, Adam and Eve could NOT be perfect, since they were vastly different. Especially in the fact that Adam and Eve weren't all-knowing. (Most likely, they were fairly ignorant.)

BTW, I put the apple in quotes because nobody REALLY knows what the fruit was. Personally, I think it was passionfruit. Yum.

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"When we turn our back on our principles, we stop being human." -- Janeway, "Equinox"

[This message has been edited by First of Two (edited August 21, 1999).]


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Baloo
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Perhaps it was a mango?

Yum!

In any case, I think I've met loads of people who expect too much from God and too little of themselves (the guy I see in the mirror when I shave belongs in that category sometimes).

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It's perfectly logical. Except for this little bit right here.
www.geocities.com/Area51/Shire/8641/



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Omega
Some other beginning's end
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It's time for another "Useless Fact".

The Catholic church disagreed with the realignment of the calender, placing New Years some months off of where it was, because they believed that the world was created at the beginning of one of our new years, even if you change calenders, and that the fruit was an apple. Since apples aren't ripe in January, Adam and Eve couldn't have eaten one then, thus January couldn't be the start of the new year. The Catholic church's belief that the fruit of the TotKoGaE was an apple also lead to decreased apple sales during the dark ages, leading apple farmers to create the phrase "An apple a day keeps the doctor away".

This has been another "Useless Fact".

------------------
HEAD KNIGHT: We are now... no longer the Knights Who Say 'Ni'.
KNIGHTS OF NI: Ni! Shh!
HEAD KNIGHT: Shh! We are now the Knights Who Say 'Ecky-ecky-ecky-ecky-pikang-zoop-boing-goodem-zoo-owli-zhiv'.
RANDOM: Ni!


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First of Two
Better than you
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Matters of greater urgency demanded my absence. Now, I am back.

Baloo: I expect a great deal of myself, and am rarely disappointed. Of course, I am frequently disappointed when other humans fail to live up to the standards that I set for myself, because I know they're all capable of at least that, if I am. Unlike the standards of a half-divine or totally divine being. (As the man said, 'it's easy to resist temptation when you're GOD.')

What is unreasonable to expect of an all-powerful being?

(whup, I can answer that myself. It is unreasonable to expect that an all-powerful being, maker, shaper and ruler of all the universes, desires the saccharine adoration of a insignificant bipedial primate on a tiny world in a corner of the universe, can be swayed by supplication, and becomes petulant if it does not receive this flattery.)

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"When we turn our back on our principles, we stop being human." -- Janeway, "Equinox"


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Omega
Some other beginning's end
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I know this is old, but I came up with the solution: there was inbreeding. You know that royal family that used to exist in Europe, but died out because of inbreeding? They eventually all became redarded and sterile. But they all had the same prominent facial features. If Adam and Eve's kids married each other, then their children would all have some similar features, which would become more prominent as time went on. This explains the human races.

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"Don't you try to outweird me, I get stranger things than you free with my
breakfast cereal."
- Zaphod Beeblebrox,
`The Restaurant at the End of the Universe'


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First of Two
Better than you
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I think the operative phrase in the statement above is "they all became retarded and sterile." This is not a good way to "be fruitful and multiply,"

Also, it is unlikely that combining genetic characteristics from closely related beings will result in the diversity of features required to create "races." More likely, you will be left with homogeniety. (That is, everybody will look the same, not different.)

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"We shall not yield to you, nor to any man." -- Freak, The Mighty.


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The_Tom
recently silent
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Of course, remember that humanity apparently repopulated itself twice (can't forget ol' Noah)...

I'd still like to here the creationist explanation for different races.

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"Well, I guess we're an Ovaltine family."
"MORE OVALTINE PLEASE!"
-American Radio Ads... *gag*... one more reason I'm glad to be above the 49th.


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Omega
Some other beginning's end
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OK, look at it this way. Since Tom brought up Noah, lets use him as an example. He had three sons, and each had a wife. Say each pair moved to a different area to start a family. If Ham had three sons and three daughters, and they paired off, and you continued with the threes, you'd have a pretty sizable population within a couple of centuries. Of course, there'd be a limited gene pool, so they'd share several features (big nose, small feet, red hair, etc.). Thus each person would have several traits of Ham and/or his wife. So if you were just dealing with one family, you would probably end up with everyone looking the same, but you're effectively dealing with three.

Another method is natural selection. Take Africans. A person with light skin has a lower chance of surviving near the equator, as they'd be suceptable to several skin conditions. Thus they'd have less of a chance of survival than someone with darker skin. Eventually, people with light skin would disappear. A similar thing would happen in the higher latitudes. Higher levels of pigment in skin would prevent sunlight from assisting with the creation of vitamin D3, thus causing rickets. Of course, the Inuit are an obvious exception, as they eat fish-liver oils, which are high in D3.

Then there's preference. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. People tend to be attracted to others who have similar traits to those they were brought up around. A white goose brought up by parents who were painted pink will prefer other geese that have been painted pink. Thus if half the people in a village had light skin, and half had slightly darker skin, a person with dark-skinned parents will probably marry a person with dark skin.

As for the "retarded and sterile" bit. That particular royal family was constantly marrying close relatives for a couple of centuries. The people after the flood would only have to do that for a couple of genrations. After that, the people could have started marying their third or fourth cousins instead of their sisters and first cousins. Marrying your sixth cousin twice removed doesn't have nearly as much chance of causing problems as marrying your first cousin. So, while the chances of causing retardation and sterility are slim, the physical traits remain within the group.

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"Don't you try to outweird me, I get stranger things than you free with my
breakfast cereal."
- Zaphod Beeblebrox,
`The Restaurant at the End of the Universe'


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