posted
Well, so the new C vs. E won't get too far off subject, I'm starting this thread. In this post, I'll be quoting from the other thread, if you wonder where I got some of these quotes.
'...I always thought that was one thing that the bible is crystal clear on, that homosexuals are evil people who have cold black hearts which pump not blood like yours or mine, but rather a thick, vomitous oil that oozes through their rotten veins and clots in their pea-sized brains which becomes the cause of their Nazi-esque patterns of violent behavior...'
You'd better hope God doesn't mind being misquoted, Liam.
'I've got a friend that knows that book that the quote about homsexuality being evil and all that is in, but he's not answering the phone right now.'
Several books contain statements about homosexuality being wrong, but the one you're probably thinking of is I Corinthians 6:9.
"Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be decieved: Niether the sexually immoral nor idolaters not adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers that will inherit the kingdom of God."
This is what is usually used by people saying that the Bible is contradictory because it says that we should love everyone, but that homosexuals are evil, and they're going to Hell, etc, etc...
But this is taken out of context. Vs. 11 says:
"And that is what some of your were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God."
'Anyway Jesus said basically was about forgiving people and including them into the fold, not excluding them.'
Now there I think you're confusing forgiveness of past sins with the acceptance of present sins, H.M.S. If the Catholic church truly believes what Christ said, then it CAN NOT accept active homosexuality. The Bible clearly states that homosexuality is wrong. The Bible aslo says that if you know a member of the Church is sinning, you should go talk to him. If he doesn't listen, go get a couple of friends and try again. If he still doesn't listen, tell the elders and let them talk to him. If he still doesn't listen, then he should be disfellowshiped (excommunicated). 1 Cor. 5:13: "Expel the wicked man from among you." You don't accept the sin. Rom. 6:2: "We died to sin; how can we live in it any longer?"
'Here's a secret about the Catholic Church that might help you understand it, just because the bible says it doesn't mean we follow it.'
This is my main quarrel with the Catholic church. They'd rather follow their own traditions than the teachings of Christ. It's all about appearance and tradition, not the spirit of the teachings. Sounds rather like the Jews of Christ's time.
That's all from me for now. Feel free to open fire.
------------------ For every complex problem, there is a solution that is simple, neat, and wrong. - H. L. Mencken
The First One
A lovely little thinker, but a bugger when he's pissed
Member # 35
posted
Actually, I've a far better idea. How about all those here who use their religion as a justification for bigotry get their asses banned? I'm not going to stanfd around while brainwashed assholes criticise people I consider friends.
------------------ "The next time the workplace seems especially hectic, remind yourself it could be worse: you could have two-dozen sharp-toothed creatures chewing on your nipples." - James Lileks
posted
Of course the Catholic Church doesn't accept active homosexuality, just like it doesn't accept heterosexual actives outside of marriage.
Anyway the reason that the Catholic Church ignores some of the bible is that there are some annoying parts. Like the Dietiary codes in the OT. Or the fact we shouldn't walk more 1/2 miles on the Sabbath. Or the Fact the Sabbath is actually on Sunday instead of the Saturday like it should be (Jesus practiced the Sabbath on Saturday, not Sunday, so who's not following his teachings:-)). Because if you don't say you can't ignore parts of the bible, then you just ignore parts you don't like (ever here a teaching from the psalm of Solomen, I bet you haven't).
Anyway what the Catholic Church allows homosexuals as long as they follow the universal teachings for unmarried folks which is no sex outside of marriage.
Finally if I recall the Jews of that time there was a bunch of factions (like the Zealots jesus didn't completely approve of them, Pharsiees; he certainly didn't approve of them, Saracees (sp) ditto to above) Of course the Zealot were as about as different as the Pharsiees as you could get and Jesus disapproved of both.
And finally I agree with the First One, as long as the rule is universal, that you can't hide behind racism sexism, or any bad ism behind anything, including race, color, religion, blab, blab.
Finally I hope no one thinks I have ever insulted anyone for what they pratice (unless they collect Beanie Babies, that just crosses the line), I don't insult anyone I don't know personally (of course if I do know them I harass them contantly but it always about silly stuff, and I ask them if it's ok every once in while to see if it is borthering them).
Omega I don't think Catholic should excommunicate more people, Catholics get in enough trouble already .
------------------ HMS White Star (your local friendly agent of Chaos and a d*mn lucky b*st*rd:-) )
[This message has been edited by HMS White Star (edited September 24, 1999).]
posted
Of course, almost none of them follow this bit:
"And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, they have their reward. But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly." Matt.6:5-6.
See? It's not the homosexuals who should be in the closet, it's the Christians!
------------------ "We shall not yield to you, nor to any man." -- Freak, The Mighty.
I have a right to express my opinion on any subject I want on these forums, last time I checked. I posted it in the Flameboard and not elsewhere because I knew it would cause an argument. And how do you define bigotry? I don't discriminate based on things people can't help (gender, race, physical disorders, etc.). Homosexuality IS under consious control, however, no matter how many people say it's genetic. That's just people not wanting to take responsibility for their actions.
H.M.S.:
Well, first, all those examples you gave were laws given to the Hebrews by God in the Old Testament. When Christ died, the old covenant was over, and a new one was enacted. The old law no longer holds.
And again, there is a big difference between racisim and sexism and discrimination against homosexuality. The former are simply genetic, while the latter is consious decision.
1of2:
"See? It's not the homosexuals who should be in the closet, it's the Christians!"
It's not the actions Jesus was critisizing. It was the intent. The Pharasees just wanted the attention of men, for the sole purpose of being recognized. The reason Christians want to be recognized is to set a good example.
------------------ For every complex problem, there is a solution that is simple, neat, and wrong. - H. L. Mencken
posted
Lee, I don't think that Omega was having a go at homosexuals. He was just saying what the bible says about it. And it's true, if you follow the word of God as laid down in the bible, then Catholics are evil.
BTW, just to clear up, my line about evil black hearts was from South Park, m'kay?
And reposted fromt he other thread...
Thanks for letting me onto your little catholic secret. I am now going to upset your apple-cart and say that I already am Catholic, and have been for two decades. *smug grin*
Well, not really. I prefer 'Christian' now.
But one thing our R.E. teacher admitted was that the bible was absolutly crystal clear on homosexuality. Not some metephour, or anything like that. Not 'consider the lillies of the field', the bible states that homosexuality is a very evil deed.
He didn't agree, and neither did we, but as proper catholics we must treat homosexuals as evil snake worshippers.
And not have before marriage sex. Or use contraception.
*ahem*
And that happens...
Well, I can dream...
------------------ You know, when Comedy Central asked us to do a Thanksgiving episode, the first thought that went through my mind was, "Boy, I'd like to have sex with Jennifer Aniston."
"...if you follow the word of God as laid down in the bible, then Catholics are evil."
Not evil. Just wrong. You don't have to treat them as "evil snake-worshipers". You just don't allow them to infulence you, and do your best to convince them that homosexuality is wrong.
"...my line about evil black hearts was from South Park, m'kay?"
Ah. That would explain why I didn't recognize it. Sorry.
------------------ For every complex problem, there is a solution that is simple, neat, and wrong. - H. L. Mencken
Sexual preference is a conscious decision? Of course! How obvious. In fact, I'd like to take this moment to make a very important announcment.
I have decided to be attracted to women. It was a pretty easy decision, really. Women smell nicer and curve in all the right places.
Madness, you say? Well, yes. I can no more choose who I wish to be attracted to then I can choose the color of my skin. And I wish I could. Being able to pick who I want to fall in love with would clear up a lot of things. But it isn't going to happen.
Oh, and I'd like to know which version of the Bible everyone is quoting from. Most every church I've been to accepts only a select few.
------------------ "And much of Madness, and more of Sin, and Horror the soul of the plot." -- The Conqueror Worm, by Edgar Allan Poe
posted
HMS White Star *shakes his head* O fun more it more of lets misunderstand the Catholic Church.
To Omega I have to disagree with on homosexuality, it certainly genetic or has something to do with brain Chemistry. The reason I am attracted to the opposite sex is genetic so why wouldn't it be the same thing in a homosexual? They really can't help it if they like they are attracted to the same sex, can they. Anyway like I said the you can be homosexual and be Catholic and be in good standing as long as you follow the rules for unmarried folks in the Church. For example, Catholics have a Believe that they actually consumer the Body and Blood of Christ in the Eurarist (sp) (basically it's a recreation of the last Supper, which was intended to be recreated, yet not all churchs do that). Anyway I understand you think Catholics are wrong, otherwise you would be Catholic, Right . Finally Liam said that Catholic had to treat homosexuals as snake worshippers (btw do you know exactly how Catholic treat snake worshippers well there supposed to treat them with respect) not that Christians treat Catholics like snake worshippers.
To Liam: *shakes his head* Of course it not a secret, duh, except not everyone relises that the Catholic Churchs doesn't do everything that the bible says. Well I talked to many religion about this (lets see there the 3 nuns I was taught by, 1 priest and one person with Masters in Theology) and no body said that Homosexuals were evil, or that we had to be unkind to them. What we where taught is to be compassionate, loving and caring about people and to love the sinner and hate the sin. Honestly I don't agree with the contraception thing and mistakes happen but we can be forgiven if we ask.
to Sol: *nods his head* correct sir. Btw in the rare event that I do quote from a Bible (which is extremely rare) I think it's from the New American Edition, but I could be wrong (shows you the last time I read it).
------------------ HMS White Star (your local friendly agent of Chaos and a d*mn lucky b*st*rd:-) )
posted
Sol, you'd better hope that some of the women on the earth are attracted to you before you pick a team to play for.
As to the rest? Why argue about it?????
As for Catholics, I can't speak for them not being one and having been in a Catholic church once for a wedding (I kept wondering when I was supposed to kneel and when to say something out loud ) I have other problems with the Catholic doctrine...but I'll save those for another thread.
At any rate the purpose...there are Fundamentalist churches and ministers out there that are much more virulent about the "dread" homo-sex-ual.
So, let lock arms, gather in a group hug...shall we? And no one had better be pinching my butt.
------------------ I took in a movie. An appalling little piece of filth. Its leading lady was a blonde harlot who spent half the film strolling around naked as a jaybird! No, just give the Great Unwashed a pair of oversized breasts and a happy ending, and they'll oink for more every time. ~C. Mongomery Burns
[This message has been edited by Jay (edited September 25, 1999).]
I think we're using two different definitions of homosexuality here. If you're attracted to members of the same sex, but don't act on that attraction in any way, I would not consider that to be homosexual. Actually, I think you CAN override your genes, and create new attractions or repulsions. Your genes determine how your brain forms to begin with, but afterwards, they have very little effect on your personality. I think everyone has a base personality, which is how a person would react in a given situation without consious thought. This base personality is originally formed by genetics, but then overwriten by environment if the force is strong enough in a certain area. Given enough consious thought, you can overwrite your base personality on purpose, so that eventually you can act a certain way without thinking about it, or without even noticing.
And I'm quoting from NIV.
H.M.S.:
Same deal as above.
Eucharest, I believe.
"Finally Liam said that Catholic had to treat homosexuals as snake worshippers, not that Christians treat Catholics like snake worshippers."
Sorry. That's what I was responding to. I just grabbed the wrong quote.
------------------ For every complex problem, there is a solution that is simple, neat, and wrong. - H. L. Mencken
posted
Well, it's nice that you believe that. It is, after all, dangerous to ascribe too many aspects of personality to genes. Though that doesn't mean it can't be true.
But why, if a person is created in some way, is that way "evil"? Seems like an extremely cruel joke to play.
------------------ "And much of Madness, and more of Sin, and Horror the soul of the plot." -- The Conqueror Worm, by Edgar Allan Poe
posted
So let me get this straight, me and my fellow gay people can easily override our urges??? Easy for you to say, your not gay are you?? I'm filipino so I was raised in very religious Catholic family. I spent 15 years of my life under the guidance of the Catholic church where I was told often by my family, especially by my mother, that gay people are evil. Well guess what, I'm gay. I haven't told my mother yet this fact since she will most likely send me to a priest to be "fixed." I don't blame her, since my dad is gay himself and that's why they divorced. Before I finally accepted that I am gay, I prayed that this was a momentary laps of judgement, but go figure that my prayers were not answered. I stil go to church since I still believe in God but I could care less of what the Church says about homosexuality.
My friends at school who are Catholic have accepted the fact that I'm gay, so I don't think that it's wrong anymore. Besides, I could care less what anyone says at this point, I like guys and that will not stop me from dating them, loving them, and definately no one can stop me from having sex with them.
------------------ "All you people, can't you see, can't you see How your love's affecting our reality Everytime we're down You can make it right And that makes you larger than life"
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