#1 "If a man is attracted to other men, dut doesn't act on it, he's not "really" homosexual"
er..
If someone male is attracted to women, but doesn't act on those urges, is he still heterosexual?

Damned straight. He's just celibate.
Whether or not you choose to have sex has no bearing on your orientation.

#2 "Homosexuality is a choice."

Oh, this could be shot up in so many ways, from the really great likelihood that someone would "choose" of their own free will to feel in ways that would get them treated so horribly by their fellow humans, to the high probability that much of it IS genetically determined, to.. oh, I forget.

However, on the basis that it's all right to discriminate against people on the basis of the "lifestyle choices" they make, I hereby propose that "religion" be removed from ALL nondiscrimination clauses. Because, as everyone knows, your religion is ALSO a "lifestyle choice."

quote:

---

Your genes determine how your brain forms to begin with, but afterwards, they have very little effect on your personality.

---

I'm going to take this oportunity to echo what Lee's been saying - don't hide behind church policies and dogma to defend your feelings. Justify them without quoting the bible or from any other religous item.
Can't do it? Good. Then this thread will die very quickly.

*watches closely*

------------------
Avon: "You really do believe in taking risks, don't you?"
Tarrant: "Calculated risks."
Avon: "Calculated on what? Your fingers?"
-- Blake's Seven, Ultraworld

Btw the previous confession isn't to say I better than anyone else, or to say it's even by choice, I just really have never had a girlfriend and the option of sex has really never come up. And I am 20, not 12.

To the First One: I don't really think Omega is wanting to surpress homosexual's, I thought we were discussing homosexuality and how the Catholic Church deals with it. You seem to be overreacting little, I haven't seem him say anything about oppressing homosexual people or anything negative (unless there is a post I missed).

------------------
HMS White Star (your local friendly agent of Chaos and a d*mn lucky b*st*rd:-) )

*applauds Michael_T*

"But why, if a person is created in some way, is that way "evil"? Seems like an extremely cruel joke to play."

Again, there's a difference between being attracted to people of the same sex and actaully acting on that attraction.

Charles:

"BTW, Omega... You have no such rights here, read the user agreement again."

Well, I haven't posted "any material which is knowingly false and/or defamatory, inaccurate, abusive, vulgar, hateful, harassing, obscene, profane, sexually oriented, threatening, invasive of aperson's privacy, or otherwise violative of any law", nor any cpoyrighted material. I am well aware that you can eliminate my post and ban me on a whim if you so choose, if that's what you're getting at.

Michael_T:

"So let me get this straight, me and my fellow gay people can easily override our urges???"

Maybe not easily, but you can, given enough desire to do so.

Feste:

"Omega - I'm deeply disappointed you didn't use that witty line about Adam and Steve."

Sorry. Never heard it.

First:

"You are advocating the repression of a social group based on your own twisted religious beliefs."

Hang on just a minute! When have I advocated REPRESSION of any social group? I simply stated that the Bible states that homosexuality is wrong, and that homosexuality is irreconsilable with the teachings of Christ.

1of2:

Point taken. Let me change my example a bit. The Bible's exact words were "Homosexual offenders". That would seem to imply that the attraction itself is not wrong, and thus by your definition, homosexuality isn't nesecarily wrong, as long as it is not acted on (assuming the Bible is correct, of course).

So thus it would become "Homosexual ACTIVITY is a choice".

"I hereby propose that "religion" be removed from ALL nondiscrimination clauses."

I would make a counterproposal: That all nondiscrimination laws be delcared unconstitutional, and thus removed from the lawbooks! Discrimination for a government job should not be allowed, because that would violate the first ammendment, but in the private sector, the government has no business telling you who you have to hire. And, yes, I would still say that if my religion was widely discriminated against.

Charles (second post):

That's because things of that nature were genetically predetermined, and were never overwriten. Try bringing up one in a strictly puritanical family, and teach him that, say, drinking is wrong, and teach it quite thoroughly. Then bring the other up in a family where both parents drink. Bring them back together in a bar and guess what the results will be. Original sexual preference is genetic, but can be changed through environment and personal effort.

"...don't hide behind church policies and dogma to defend your feelings. Justify them without quoting the Bible or from any other religous item."

Well, considering that this thread is about the incompatibilities of Christian beliefs and homosexuality, quotes from the Bible are quite relevant.

H.M.S.:

Again, thanks for the defence.

Basically, Catholics accept homosexuals as people, but they can't marry (other homosexuals). And since premarital sex isn't allowed either way, homosexuals can't have sex at all (assuming they don't break the rule). Omega insists that a homosexual isn't homosexual if he/she does not have sex. Is that not the same as the Catholic rule I described above? Catholics may still call them homosexuals, but you believe the exact same thing they do.

The thing about Catholics: there are radical, conservative, and centralist Catholics, and conservatives might tell you that homosexuals are evil while radicals accept them. I was taught in school that they're accepted, and I'm betting that's the official word.

I haven't asked my Lutheran friend yet, but I *think* she told me that the homosexual relationships are recognized/acknowledged/accepted. I guess I just sort of assumed they're allowed to have sex.

I would just like to say now that these religious debates have made me despise Christianity. I may yet find a church that accepts homosexuals and Evolution, but I DON'T CARE anymore. I still believe in God, or a god, but I'm staying away from Christianity and the Bible. Let me just say this: IF there were no contradictions and contraversies in the Bible, people would not be able to debate on it. I may still support Catholicism from time to time, but only because Protestants tend to twist it into something else.

------------------
"I told you. You're dead. This is the afterlife. And I'm God."
--Q to Picard, "Tapestry".

To Charles: Cool point, however I have a story how environment can shape a person. Ok there were two identical twin brothers separated at birth. When they were finally reunited they discovered that they had a lot of the same characteristics (like what Charles mentioned) however there was one big difference. One of the brothers was Jew, the other was a member of the Nazis Party, a guy who hated jews (btw this a true story) so what does that have to do with the current topic not much, but I always loving to annoy the folks who use twinning [that is the technical term for the behavior Charles disscribed] as support of the genetics as the major influnce).

Since this is a discussion on the Catholic Church and there view on homosexuality then the Scriptures are relvant, of course hiding behind them isn't really kosher either, however I really haven't people doing that.

------------------
HMS White Star (your local friendly agent of Chaos and a d*mn lucky b*st*rd:-) )

*ring, ring* "Hello? Who's there?"
"Dead horse. STOP BEATING ME!"

'nuff said.