posted
"Halloween is evil!" "It's Satanic!" "It's a wicked pagan holiday!"
I swear, if I hear those words from JUST ONE MORE Fundie Idiot, I'm gonna have to strangle 'em. For the sake of Humanity.
Kiddies. 1. Halloween started its existence as a harvest/equinox festival. It was called Samhain, in honor of the God of Death and Darkness. (PLEASE note that to these people, Death and Darkness were not EVIL things, just natural parts of life,which the year just happened to mimic. "It's the cirrrcle of liiiiife...") They were headed into the days of longer night and cold, and it seemed the whole world was dying off. MY guess, although I could be wrong about this bit, is that it was originally AT the equinox, but was moved later in order to be on a single day on the new calendar, or to become All-Hallows Eve ( precursor to the very Christian All-Saints Day, Nov.1 )
2. These same folks had NO concept of the Christian "Satan." It didn't exist to them. Saying otherwise is false, libelous, and just plain ignorant.
3. The practice of dressing up came about due to the belief that the spirits of the dead could return on this day. Now, the spirits of the dead were not always unwelcome. Many sought to honor their ancestors (much as the Chinese do,) and welcomed their return any any advice they might give. However, some spirits were just plain NASTY, and the belief was that if you could fool these spirits into thinking you were one of them, they would let you be. Alternatively, if you were scary enough, they would FLEE from you. Hence, the meaning of dressing up is to SCARE the evil spirits, NOT to JOIN them.
4. Halloween today is no more a "pagan holiday" than are Christmas and Easter (which, as anyone moderately intelligent knows, were ALSO originally pagan festivals, and co-opted by Christianity. "Eostre" was a goddess.) Truthfully, they are all now just massive consumer orgies of buying and overindulgence. But we'll let that one go.
There, now I've vented, which will hopefully keep me from blasting all thout at the next Fundie Idiot I meet in the library who goes off about my decorations or my letting the kids dress up for story hour.
ANYONE who believes all that Halloween = Satanism crap is LIVING IN AN UNREAL WORLD. And they should crawl inside and seal the door shut after them.
*pant* *pant*
That's better.
------------------ "We shall not yield to you, nor to any man." -- Freak, The Mighty.
Post-edit P.S: Besides. This is the only time of the year (or so it seems) that you can actually find FRESH Tootsie Rolls. The rest of the year they're just petrified sticks of Chocolate.
[This message has been edited by Baloo (edited October 10, 1999).]
posted
I dislike Hallowe'en, but that's only because I find the idea of parents sending children out to beg for candy absurd.
Ignore me.
And don't say that's too easy, Lee.
------------------ Elim Garak: "Oh, it's just Garak. Plain, simple Garak. Now, good day to you, Doctor. I'm so glad to have made such an... interesting new friend today." (DS9: "Past Prologue")
Besides, Haloween was just an attempt to draw attentin away from Bonfire Night.
------------------ Cordellia: "Well, does looking at guns make you wanna have sex?" Xander: "I'm seventeen. Looking at linoleum makes me wanna have sex."
posted
They showed us a video tape about the "evilness" of Halloween at church two years ago. Pretty propagandist stuff. I love Halloween, though. It's an excuse to wear my Starfleet uniform.
------------------ --Then, said Cranly, do you not intend to become a protestant? --I said that I had lost the faith, Stephen answered, but not that I had lost self-respect. What kind of liberation would that be to forsake an absurdity which is logical and coherent and to embrace one which is illogical and incoherent?
James Joyce, A Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man.
one might argue that the idea of a mind-reading trespasser in a red suit whose name is an anagram for 'satan' might perhaps be a little more evil that greedy extortionists demanding protection payments to feed their sugar jones. but not by much.
posted
"1. Halloween started its existence as a harvest/equinox festival. It was called Samhain, in honor of the God of Death and Darkness."
Samhain doesn't commemorate the God of Death and Darkness. It's a harvest holiday in which we honor the sacrifice of the God of Wheat and Sun so that we will have food over the winter. It is also a celebration of rebirth, as we know the God will be born again at Yule.
"MY guess, although I could be wrong about this bit, is that it was originally AT the equinox, but was moved later in order to be on a single day on the new calendar"
Nope, Samhain has always been around this date. The Equinox holiday is "Mabon". You will notice that the Spanish tradition has their "Day of the Dead" the day after Samhain night. This is not a coincidence.
"These same folks had NO concept of the Christian "Satan." It didn't exist to them. Saying otherwise is false, libelous, and just plain ignorant."
True. Satan is a Christian creation that only exists inside the Christian religion. Gee, I wonder why that is?
"3. The practice of dressing up came about due to the belief that the spirits of the dead could return on this day...."
Yup on this one as well. Also, food was left out to honor the spirits of the ancestors who came to visit, and the Jack O Lanterns were to lead these dead ancestor spirits to your house, to make them feel welcome.
"4. Halloween today is no more a "pagan holiday" than are Christmas and Easter (which, as anyone moderately intelligent knows, were ALSO originally pagan festivals, and co-opted by Christianity. "Eostre" was a goddess.)
Indeed. Halloween has turned into a MOCKERY of the very sacred and holy holiday that my religion consideres it to be. That's why I don't take part in it. Samhain was a very special time before, and now it's been taken over by candy salespeople and the media. *sighs*. As with Christmas, which now doesn't even have as much CHRISTIAN importance as it used to..
I'm not so sure about Eostre though. It's also called Ostara, and a few other things. Vernal Equinox. Not necessarily VERY connected to the Catholic faith.
------------------ "...when all that is driving my heart forward is you, thoughts of you, hopes for you, and a fading dream with a Mona Lisa smile that whispers "are you thinking of me too?"
41 days till the dreams become reality...
[This message has been edited by Jubilee McGann (edited October 11, 1999).]
posted
hey, I just copied what World Book Encyclopedia said.
Trust Jube's interpretation, though. She knows more about it.
------------------ 'In every country and in every age the priest has been hostile to Liberty; he is always in allegiance to the despot, abetting his abuses in return for protection of his own." ---- Thomas Jefferson
posted
I have to take issue with the concept of Satan being one exclusive to Christianity. The idea of an evil foil to God or Gods extends to many religions.
Zoroasterism, for instance, though I'll be durned if I can remember the name. Something interesting, though.
Norse traditions have the trickster god Loki, who is chained to a rock by his fellows one day for taking things a bit too far and killing a fellow god. (Balder, I think.) One day Loki will escape his bonds and command the ship from Hel that will assist in the destruction of the world.
Egyptain mythology contains Set, whose motivations are a bit trickier to recall, but I believe he was the one who chopped up Osirus and scattered him to the winds.
------------------ I do indeed and shall continue Dispatch the shiftless man to points beyond -- Soul Coughing
posted
Ah, yes, Sol.... but what you're missing is that Satan is NOT a God. He is the antithesis of God. Yes, there are trickster gods in the pagan tradition. Lugh was one of them. I believe in the native american tradition the coyote was the trickster. But we have never had a true embodiment of all that is evil, and we have never had this embodiment "tempt" us or try to "draw us to the dark side"... THAT is the judeo-christian belief structure. And i'm not knocking christianity... there are a bunch of really nice people who follow that tradition and are blessed. I'm just saying that there is not Satan anywhere else.
------------------ "...when all that is driving my heart forward is you, thoughts of you, hopes for you, and a fading dream with a Mona Lisa smile that whispers "are you thinking of me too?"
posted
Speaking about strange thoughts about holidays, you until about 100 or so years ago most Protestant sects didn't celebrate Christmas. Seriously they thought it was an Evil pagan holiday. Also they there was something in the OT that said that anyone who celebrated around a Christmas Tree was a fool. However the rank and file always celebrated Christmas (honestly people take any excuse to party very seriously ). O course the "Evil" Catholic Church has enjoyed the Christmas holiday for some time and it is one of the reasons that other Christan religions switched to the "Christmas is good" side.
------------------ HMS White Star (your local friendly agent of Chaos and a d*mn lucky b*st*rd:-) )
I'll party any time I like, but it's important that there are recognized times to gather together with friends and party. Otherwise all those "type A" personalities would be a real drag 365 days a year.
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