Still think gun control would reduce crime here? Certainly didn't in these two countries.
And to demonstrate my point about the consistant use of firearm registration programs, this from the second article:
"They [the Australian police] have been using previous registration and firearm license lists to check for lapses and confiscate non-surrendered firearms."
And we await the fallout... ------------------ "To disarm the people [is] the best and most effectual way to enslave them." - George Mason, American Statesman and Author of the Virginia Declaration of Rights (1776)
[This message has been edited by Omega (edited July 13, 2000).]
posted
Oh, yes, I forgot. Can't accept any source, can we? What do you want, me to give you the number of the Australian Bureau of Statistics so you can ask them yourself? Give me a legitimate challenge to the accuracy of the numbers, come up with a way that they do not confirm my conclusion, or conceed the point. Otherwise, you're being completely irrational.
------------------ "To disarm the people [is] the best and most effectual way to enslave them." - George Mason, American Statesman and Author of the Virginia Declaration of Rights (1776)
[This message has been edited by Omega (edited July 13, 2000).]
posted
"They [the Australian police] have been using previous registration and firearm license lists to check for lapses and confiscate non-surrendered firearms."
So?
------------------ "Remeber, if there is a nuclear explosion, be sure to close your windows as the massive heat could cause objects within your home to catch fire".
posted
"They banned HANDCUFFS??? How do the police hold their criminals?"
What criminals? Remember, with no guns around, there IS no crime. Oh, wait...
------------------ "To disarm the people [is] the best and most effectual way to enslave them." - George Mason, American Statesman and Author of the Virginia Declaration of Rights (1776)
posted
You know....this is curious. I had a hunch, so I checked with the Australian Bureau of statistics. The article from NewsMax says "In the two years following the gun ban(1996), armed robberies rose by 73 percent, unarmed robberies by 28 percent, kidnappings by 38 percent, assaults by 17 percent and manslaughter by 29 percent, according to the Australian Bureau of Statistics."
Fair enough, but go to the report on 4509.0 Crime and Safety, Australia for 1998 -Link- It clearly says "A previous Crime and Safety Survey was conducted by the Australian Bureau of Statistics in 1993 and shows that, where data can be compared, the prevalence of victimisation for offences were similar for 1993 and 1998.
The 1998 prevalence rates for household break-ins and attempted break-ins were slightly higher than the rates in 1993 but the differences are not statistically significant. ...
In 1998 the prevalence rate for sexual assault for females aged 18 years and over was slightly lower than the 1993 figure, but the difference is not statistically significant.
Most important however...
It is not possible to compare the personal crimes of robbery and assault between the 1993 and 1998 surveys due to changes in the questions used in the survey."
Interesting...researching onwards...
------------------ Stealing from one author is called plagarism. Stealing from many is called research.
[This message has been edited by Mucus (edited July 14, 2000).]
[This message has been edited by Mucus (edited July 14, 2000).]
posted
Ok, have fun. I found the article with exact numbers. Link
Its curious that NewsMax picked exactly the two years after the gun ban for their numbers. What happened afterwards? Well, from 1998 to 1999 attempted murder dropped 7.5%, manslaughter dropped 17%, driving causing death dropped 25%, robbery dropped 5.1%, blackmail and extortion dropped 5.9%...etc....read it for yourself. And you might be asking why did the number of murders go up? 12 victims of crimes were discovered at once and two murder/suicides involving 9 people.. The most important thing is that total crimes dropped 4.3%
Still looking for newer statistics.....
------------------ Stealing from one author is called plagarism. Stealing from many is called research.
posted
Hmmmm, I'm wondering where they got their Canadian statistics too...
From NewsMax: But in countries with strict gun control, such as England and Canada,criminals enter houses at will, without worrying whether anyone is home. The hot burglary rate in those countries is nearly 50 percent.
After studying 18 years' worth of crime statistics from around the United States, Lott concluded that "states experiencing the greatest reductions in crime are also the ones with the fastest growing percentages of gun ownership."
Secondly, http://www.statcan.ca/Daily/English/990721/d990721b.htm "The crime rate, based on crimes reported by police, fell for the seventh consecutive year in 1998. The 4.1% drop resulted in the lowest rate in almost 20 years...Robberies committed with a firearm have decreased steadily since 1991, including a 3.5% drop in 1998. Robberies with a firearm accounted for 18% of all robberies in 1998, down from 25% ten years ago, and 37% 20 years ago.
Data from a sample of 94 police services, including Toronto, Montr�al and Vancouver, indicate that the presence of firearms in violent crime has declined steadily over the last five years, from 6.5% of all violent incidents in 1994 to 4.8% in 1998."
And one final interesting point: "The majority of firearm-related deaths in Canada are a result of suicide. Each year there are about five times as many suicides involving firearms as homicides."
Hmmmm, so much for the argument that gun control wouldn't stop crime because hardened criminals wouldn't obey it. At least it would cut down on suicides. (And don't even try to prove that a "veteran suicide" exists)
------------------ Stealing from one author is called plagarism. Stealing from many is called research.
[This message has been edited by Mucus (edited July 14, 2000).]
This confirms everything the NewsMax article said.
"where data can be compared, the prevalence of victimisation for offences were similar for 1993 and 1998."
All this indicates is that, assuming that ALL data can be compaired (definitely a questionable assumption), crime went down until '96, when they banned guns, when it started going back up to '93 levels, since according to the ABS, crime went up significantly between '96 and '98.
Regardless of whether their numbers went down somewhat in '99, they're still mich higher than before the gun ban in '96.
Interesting, that the 21 unusual murder victims supposedly account for the increased murder rate, even though without them, there'd still 321 murders, which is the '97 level, considerably higher than the '98 level. One wonders if those twelve discovered bodies were killed in '98, thus accounting for the oddly low levels that year.
Mucus: "Its curious that NewsMax picked exactly the two years after the gun ban for their numbers. What happened afterwards?"
Well, the stats for '99 weren't released 'til after those articles were written, for one thing.
It's also odd how the '98 numbers on the '96-'98 page don't match up with the '98 numbers on the '98-'99 page.
------------------ "To disarm the people [is] the best and most effectual way to enslave them." - George Mason, American Statesman and Author of the Virginia Declaration of Rights (1776)
posted
You also have to wonder what causes the differences in assault rates between N. Territory and Victoria, with 1,126 and 358 respectively.
------------------ "To disarm the people [is] the best and most effectual way to enslave them." - George Mason, American Statesman and Author of the Virginia Declaration of Rights (1776)
posted
No one every said that with gun control, all crimes will be wipe out.
Even if we are going to ban guns, illegal fire arms are still going to be out there in the black market.
But there is one major difference, if we banned fire arms, and we're serious about reinforceing the issue, then instead of facing small-time-crooks sticking people up with a guns which they buy for less then a hundred bucks, they'll probably only have knifes because small-time-crooks don't have the money to get one.
Real mobs can still afford guns, but how many crime related fatality are done by the mobs compare to the one done by the small-time-crooks?
And man, if the government decided to take advantages of us, we don't stand a chance! It is ignorant for us to think that if we have guns, then we can stand up to professional army soldiers, not to mention that wars nowaday are not fought by infantry anymore.
------------------ If a diamond is a woman's best friend, why does a man has to settle for a dog?
If someone is threatening you with a knife, are YOU going to tell them "no"? Especially if you don't have a gun? Whether the criminal has a gun or a knife is irrelevant. He's still robbing you.
The entire point of this exercize is to show that eliminating guns makes crime WORSE. This is in complete oposition to what liberals would have you believe, saying that eliminating guns would reduce crime.
------------------ "To disarm the people [is] the best and most effectual way to enslave them." - George Mason, American Statesman and Author of the Virginia Declaration of Rights (1776)
posted
And just how do you think that the government would use fighter planes and such against people in cities? The only way to put down a rebellion without killing EVERYONE or doing unacceptable damage would be to take over the entire city with ground-based military force. Thus guns. Your point about infantry is invalid.
As for what chance we'd stand against a government occupying force, I'd say a pretty darned good one. To go through every major US city simultaneously (so as not to give any advance warning) searching every home for weaponry would be impossible. The military simply doesn't have that many personel. Toss in the fact that the national guard would likely rebel in places, and they wouldn't stand a chance. Unless, of course, they KNEW where all the guns were because of registration programs, like in, say, Australia.
------------------ "To disarm the people [is] the best and most effectual way to enslave them." - George Mason, American Statesman and Author of the Virginia Declaration of Rights (1776)
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