posted
Er.. Ghandi? Wasn't he... you know.. assassinated?
When you're dead, and your opponents are still alive, you didn't win.
Oh, you may have the moral high ground, but you're still "bleedin' de-MISED!"
(apologies to Mr. Cleese and the parrot)
Oh, and I think the fact that there were a heluva lot MORE Indians than there were Brits in India might've had something to do with it. I mean, you don't take out a troublemaker when his followers outnumber you 200(00?) to one. Some of them might get nasty. So you graciously withdraw... kind of like the US/UN did once China entered the Korean War. Too many folks to fight without an intolerable escalation, so you all make nice instead.
Which ends up being an argument FOR arms, don't it?
BTW, did North Korea or China sign the no-mines treaty, and if so, are they abiding by it? What? No reliable data? How suprising... They also signed several UN 'civil rights' treaties, didn't they? BEFORE Tianamen Square? Oh, my. Oh, my my my.
------------------ "Nobody knows this, but I'm scared all the time... of what I might do, if I ever let go." -- Michael Garibaldi
posted
"Oh, by all means, take the moral high ground. All that heavenly backlighting makes you a much easier target."
And wasn't there a little thing about proliferation of nuclear arms that they were involved with as well?
------------------ "To disarm the people [is] the best and most effectual way to enslave them." - George Mason, American Statesman and Author of the Virginia Declaration of Rights (1776)
posted
Omega: One phrase: Arms race All giving arms to citizens will do is force criminals to get better weapons and become more proficient at them. The end result in crimes is the same, just more lethal.
First: Hands up, who remembers Ghandi? Hands up, who remembers the name of the person who assassinated him? *shrug* The point is, one man can't be perfect and change the world, but at least he'll be remembered in a good way for a long time.
"When you're dead, and your opponents are still alive, you didn't win."
Oh, one word: Christ Are you saying he lost? Interesting question
Uhhh, your argument is for arms in a occupation of a hostile country in which you had no business being in anyways (which I'd have to agree with, advanced arms is great for oppressing others and stepping on their rights) ....I don't see the relation with gun control.
Omega: The US also agreed with the Geneva conventions. Didn't stop them from dropping the only nuclear weapons used in a war did it? Funny that.
------------------ 1957: The space age begins when the first artificial satellite, Sputnik 1, is placed in orbit by the Soviet Union on October 4. Our German rocket scientists get very annoyed with their German rocket scientists. � Outpost
Poor argument. It doesn't matter if you have an AK-47 slung over your shoulder when someone has a revolver pointed at your head. Type of weapon doesn't really matter, so long as it can be easily used.
Christ's opponents are still alive, but their defeat is ensured. Christ is still alive (Yes, I'm aware that only Christians believe that, but you brought up the argument on my terms, so...). Your argument is again flawed.
------------------ "To disarm the people [is] the best and most effectual way to enslave them." - George Mason, American Statesman and Author of the Virginia Declaration of Rights (1776)
My across the creek neighbors, (less than 100 yards/meters) are selling Crack. They took off a few weeks ago, and we figured the police were on to them, untill two Cubans (Hispanic gentelmen, with Miami licence) showed up looking for them. State rode workers saw the two gentelmen at my neighbors place. The two Cubans went to other hollows, looking for a place that matched the discription they had. A junky yard with Ford trucks in it. They found a friend of ours, with Chevy trucks in his yard, and hasseled him. Both were carring brief cases. The rumor going around is that the neighbors owe the Miami mod $30,000 and some coke. The Cubans evenually left, without finding the neighbors, the neighbor retuned about a week ago.
Would you: Call the police (we did) Set around helplessly, hopeing the Cubans never return, and if they do, don't fire in the direction of your mother's home. Keep a gun handy, in case the neighbors run your way with the Cubans chaseing them.
I don't care if the Cubans get the neighbors. They deserve their fate for getting involved in the first place, but if they come our way, we are ready. The mob don't leave witnesses.
------------------ Fool of a Took, throw yourself in next time!! Gandalf
posted
Omega: Whoa, speaking of logic, thats pretty messed up logic there. The criminal only has the AK-47 because you have the revolver. If you didn't have a revolver, the criminal wouldn't feel the need to get an AK-47. Therefore, he would be threatening you with a knife while you would be using whatever self-defence training or martial arts you know.
Thats the nature of an arms race. By getting a gun, you haven't improved your situation, you've only made it more lethal for whichever party loses.
Also, you've messed up your other point. 1) First said that if you die while your opponents are still alive, you have lost. 2) You are saying that Christ "won" despite the fact that he died. (Its hard to get resurrected, if you haven't died)
Kosh: You're bringing up an example of a very bad situation in a country with little to no gun control and rampant dustribution of arms. How does this help you?
------------------ 1957: The space age begins when the first artificial satellite, Sputnik 1, is placed in orbit by the Soviet Union on October 4. Our German rocket scientists get very annoyed with their German rocket scientists. � Outpost
posted
>"Whoa, speaking of logic, thats pretty messed up logic there. The criminal only has the AK-47 because you have the revolver. If you didn't have a revolver, the criminal wouldn't feel the need to get an AK-47. Therefore, he would be threatening you with a knife while you would be using whatever self-defence training or martial arts you know."
Ah, the fallacy of reductionism. How quaint.
By this logic, we can take a few steps further and say that if I confront the criminal with overabundant peace and joy, he will disarm himself.
Everybody SING! "This is the dawning of the age of Aquarius, the age of Aquariuuuuuuus..."
*waves a Dogbertish paw* BAH.
It also assumes the the balance of superior firepower will always be on the side of the criminal. What if he has a saturday night special, but I have a pump action shotgun? Then the 'arms race' HELPS me.
If you had your bare hands, and the criminal can get access to a firearm, he won't give up the gun just to level the playing field for you. And since illegal access to guns is far easier than legal access (ask Kosh's Cuban friends)... ta-da.
------------------ "Nobody knows this, but I'm scared all the time... of what I might do, if I ever let go." -- Michael Garibaldi
posted
"Therefore, he would be threatening you with a knife while you would be using whatever self-defence training or martial arts you know."
Which would greatly reduce your chances of surviving. I'd rather have the revolver.
"The criminal only has the AK-47 because you have the revolver."
Tell the cops in Brittain that. They're mostly unarmed, but they run up against teens with automatics. Your logic is flawed.
"By getting a gun, you haven't improved your situation, you've only made it more lethal for whichever party loses."
Wrong. You may have made it more lethal for the looser, but you've greatly increased your chances of winning. Would you rather physically beat an intruder into your home up when he may have a knife or a crowbar, or would you rather hold him at bay with a gun from across the room? Your chances are far greater of surviving with the latter. Sure, if someone's gonna get injured, you'd rather be without guns, but with guns there's FAR less chance of someone being injured.
You said: "First said that if you die while your opponents are still alive, you have lost."
First actually said: "When you're dead, and your opponents are still alive, you didn't win."
Major difference. And since First doesn't believe in the ressurection of Christ, I doubt he formulated the rules to allow for it. Nor did I say I unquestionably agreed with this statement. You've started a pointless argument over nothing.
First:
*cheers*
Name what position you want in my presidential administration. If you're qualified, and it hasn't been taken, it's yours. We need more intelligence in government.
------------------ "To disarm the people [is] the best and most effectual way to enslave them." - George Mason, American Statesman and Author of the Virginia Declaration of Rights (1776)
Shik
Starship database: completed; History of Starfleet: done; website: probably never
Member # 343
posted
"Would you rather physically beat an intruder into your home up when he may have a knife or a crowbar, or would you rather hold him at bay with a gun from across the room?"
Physically beat on him. I prefer taking a personal note in my work.
"Your chances are far greater of surviving with the latter."
No, not really. My own personal chances of surviving are far greater no matter if the other person is armed or NOT. That's just by sheer dint of my own inherent superiority.
"Sure, if someone's gonna get injured, you'd rather be without guns, but with guns there's FAR less chance of someone being injured."
No, not really. If I'm out for hurtin', "someone" is going to be severely injured whether guns are involved or not. That's how I am.
------------------ "Do you know how much YOU'RE worth??.....2.5 million Woolongs. THAT'S your bounty. I SAID you were small fry..." --Spike Spiegel
posted
Yes, but we're not talking about you, Shik. We're talking about the non-superhuman portion of the populace.
------------------ "To disarm the people [is] the best and most effectual way to enslave them." - George Mason, American Statesman and Author of the Virginia Declaration of Rights (1776)
quote: Mucus said: you're bringing up an example of a very bad situation in a country with little to no gun control and rampant dustribution of arms. How does this help you?
My chances of surviveing the next visit from the Cubans goes up. I don't think they would bother us anyway, unless we just happened to be standing at the door, or in the window, or, as I said above, the neighbors run our way. The creek seperating us is shallow, and the neighbors would have to run up hill if they go in the other direction.
------------------ Fool of a Took, throw yourself in next time!! Gandalf
Shik
Starship database: completed; History of Starfleet: done; website: probably never
Member # 343
posted
Please, oh please oh PLEASE tell me we don't have another pseudoninja on our hands... Heeheehee...."pseudoninja"..I like that. Noted, logged, & filed. Um, I studied Japanese & European swordsmanship, took a bit of tai chi for the mentalism, but I'm by no means a martial artist. A greenie could pop my ass with shit like that. What I DO have is a nice healthy homicidal rage as evidenced on my site.
Oh, yeah, "I'm gonna disarm and whoopass on a knife-weilding intruder."
Buddy, I don't hare how good you are. I fire off a double-barrelled shotgun in your general direction, and you ain't hitting nothing but the floor. Eventually, yeah. If I'm in that "urge to kill rising" mode, I'd probably inflict my damage, look down, see the blood pumping out, mumble something along the lines of "MotherFUCKer!!" & THEN fall to the floor. LOL..
"Grasshopper, best kung-fu block no stop hot lead." Unless you're Fred Ward. (A lolly to the person who gets the ref!)
And just because we're playing the bragging-rights game... I'm a qualified sharpshooter. So mugging me and running won't help... You keep a rifle on you? Heh..um...I can shoot rubber bands really well...heeheehee...
------------------ "Do you know how much YOU'RE worth??.....2.5 million Woolongs. THAT'S your bounty. I SAID you were small fry..." --Spike Spiegel
------------------ "To disarm the people [is] the best and most effectual way to enslave them." - George Mason, American Statesman and Author of the Virginia Declaration of Rights (1776)
Printer-friendly view of this topic
