posted
What are you arguing? You can learn from both "current events" or "history". Which one you label it is irrelevant to learning.
I'm just saying the dividing line is relative, aka. is the line one millenia ago? one century ago? one month ago? one day ago? one second ago?
------------------ 1957: The space age begins when the first artificial satellite, Sputnik 1, is placed in orbit by the Soviet Union on October 4. Our German rocket scientists get very annoyed with their German rocket scientists. � Outpost
posted
Mucus: I think Omega was talking about morality in the Bible-thumping perspective, in which case it is supposedly not relative but I don't know anyone who acts like that in reality. Er, that is, the reality of corporeal life, since reality is also relative.
------------------ "One more day before the storm At the barricades of freedom! When our ranks begin to form Will you take your place with me?" --Enjolras, "One Day More," Les Miserables
"Great, Einstein raised doubt whether or not most of our basic measurements of time and space are relative and you're trying to say a human abstraction like morality is absolute?"
Abstract concepts created by humanity (assuming you don't believe in God) are certainly absolute. Look at mathematics. We defined it, so we make the rules. Pure science is a completely different animal, as we're analyzing something that already exists, and trying to deduce the existing rules. Just because we don't all agree on an absolute moral standard doesn't mean one doesn't exist.
"How the f*** can you be so egocentric (culture-centric?) to even start to believe that North America is the only "civilization" in the world."
I don't believe I ever said that we were.
"And you're trying to say your standard of morality is the only applicable one in the whole world? Can you be any more arrogant?"
Oh, yes, my belief that I'm right is such a terrible thing. Can't think that anyone's wrong, can we?
*sarcasm dripping off the walls*
------------------ "To disarm the people [is] the best and most effectual way to enslave them." - George Mason, American Statesman and Author of the Virginia Declaration of Rights (1776)
posted
<interruption>If I may make a quick correction to post a ways back, I'd like to point out that Canada didn't ever, to my knowlege, use force against its Native peoples. Of course, it could be said that the one-sided imposed land treaties and their consequences were equally abusive as far as human rights were concerned, but the mounties did successfully prevent Cowboys 'n Injuns style violence north of the 49th Parallel. The Metis were of course, a different story.</interruption> We now return to your regularly-scheduled discussion.
------------------ "Truth about Santa Claus debunks Santa God. God evolves from Santa." -Gene Ray, http://www.timecube.com
[This message has been edited by The_Tom (edited July 20, 2000).]
------------------ I am not good with English but excuses me. I hate you whom think bad of the gods of the thunder known under the name of ""Metallica"". Good tape of ""Metallica"" is ""Load"", that you like it or not. A much better tape of Metallica ""Load"" than overrated the tape known under the name of ""Iron Maiden"" ""Powerslave"". You all are penis for the bad one of thought about ""Lars"". ""Lars"" can take a cucumber in bottom of his throat without reflex of muzzle. Lars can too take cucumber in bottom with no stretching of bottom hole sphincter muscle. Thanks for reading. -- an anonymous fan **** Read chapter one of "Dirk Tungsten in...The Disappearing Planet"! Because I'm saving all my love for you.
posted
Ha! the second post said it would wind up here!!
At any rate, the United States has traded with communist countries for quite a while now. Cuba really shouldn't any different than China for example. Save for the fact that American coporations have decided that China offers a huge market for stuff like Coke and you had better know that the tobacco companies are chomping at the bit to get in there too.
And, as we all know, the market overrides considerations like human rights, demorcacy, or species survival.
The only thing preventing normalized American relations comes down to two things.
Hubris. Since the creation of the Monroe Doctrine, the western hemisphere has always been ours. Damn it. And how dare Cuba decide on a course of action not in line with the great white brother to the north. As the old Mexican saying goes, 'poor Mexico, so far from God and so close to the United States.'
A small core of Cuban Americans for whom Castro hating is a major religion.
------------------ Oh, fiddle faddle, everyone knows that our mutants have flippers. Oops, I've said too much..... ~C. Montgomery Burns
posted
Trade with Commie Land? Never! What galls me about the Cuba situation is that Castro seems to think that its the USA's duty to trade with Cuba. The USA is under no obligation to trade with anyone. Our dollars go where we please, not where some penny ante dictator wants them to go. They blame all of their problems on us (that's for all of us good, red blooded Americans out there!), conveniently forgetting that there has never been an example of communism in action that actually functions as advertised. The USSR? North Korea? The old Eastern European Bloc? Need I go on? Every one, sputtering economically under the so-called blessings of communism or turning towards capitalism in latent recognition of their own failings. Hey Castro, if the USA is so evil and oppressive, why would you even want to trade with us? Probably because you can sense the walls crumbling around you and you're looking around for anything to help prop you up, like better economic conditions engendered by trade with the US of A. I will agree that trading with Red China but not with Cuba makes the US look very hypocritical. Indeed, if I had my way we wouldn't trade with either of these menaces to human rights and individual expression. Ys, human rights can be variously interpreted, but censorship and political persecution certainly applies, and both countries practice them.
------------------ Everything in life I ever needed to know I learned from The Simpsons.
posted
Wow. I could almost hear "Stars and Stripes forever" playing while you said that.
It's a crappy song anyway. Pomp & Circumstance no 1 is a much better national anthem. Pity it isn't, but there you go.
------------------ "I can't believe we're actually gonna meet Guru Lou. Everyone says he's the wisest man in the universe. He's sensitive, creative, has a great sense of humour, and he's a really smooth dancer. *giggles*" "You're confused Polly. We're not meeting Paul Newman." - Polly & Speedy; Samurai Pizza Cats
posted
First of all, Liam, I think you're a bit confused here. "Stars and Stripes Forever" isn't our national anthem, it's a march by John Phillips Sousa and is, in fact, quite brilliant.
Anyway, Constellation. Hmm. Let me try to get this straight. Communism is bad? Gotcha. Capitalism is good? Gotcha. Communist states collapse and embrace capitalism? Gotcha.
We should deny capitalism to Cuba so that communism falls. Uh...ok, the train just jumped about fifteen tracks. If free markets tend to lead towards free people, why on earth do we want to keep them away from the people who need freeing the most?
I think you need to seriously rethink your approach to economic policy.
------------------ I am not good with English but excuses me. I hate you whom think bad of the gods of the thunder known under the name of ""Metallica"". Good tape of ""Metallica"" is ""Load"", that you like it or not. A much better tape of Metallica ""Load"" than overrated the tape known under the name of ""Iron Maiden"" ""Powerslave"". You all are penis for the bad one of thought about ""Lars"". ""Lars"" can take a cucumber in bottom of his throat without reflex of muzzle. Lars can too take cucumber in bottom with no stretching of bottom hole sphincter muscle. Thanks for reading. -- an anonymous fan **** Read chapter one of "Dirk Tungsten in...The Disappearing Planet"! Because I'm saving all my love for you.
posted
Of course, you have to make the assumption that trade with Cuba WOULD, in fact, lead to a free market society. Since we ourselves don't have a totally free market, I'd say chances are the answer would be, "no".
------------------ "To disarm the people [is] the best and most effectual way to enslave them." - George Mason, American Statesman and Author of the Virginia Declaration of Rights (1776)
posted
First, I never said that we should deny capitalism to Cuba, Sol System. Please don't attempt to put words into my mouth. However, as long as Castro is in power I see no reason to help him remain there, and trading with Castro would, in effect, help him stay there. He would make it into a propaganda victory - "See, comrades, we outlasted the capitalist running dogs! Look at what I've done for you!" Its much the same reason that trading with North Korea is so potentially dangerous. Give them food and money, and they build missiles and start nuclear weapons programs. Give Castro trade, and you just watch him remain in power and continue to outlaw political dissent. Free elections in Cuba? Yeah, right. If Castro ever croaks out or is overthrown, then my response would be to open the capitalist floodgates. But until then, the USA is under no obligation to trade with Cuba. None.
And for the trivia impaired out there, as was previously mentioned John Philip Sousa wrote Stars and Stripes Forever - while heading the US Marine Corps Band. Oorah!
------------------ Everything in life I ever needed to know I learned from The Simpsons.
posted
Okay, Star Spangled Banner then. Sorry (I do like Sousa, so I should hav eknown what I was talkaing about). Still, there are a fair number of people who seem to think that the British national anthem is Rule Britannia. Pity it isn't. God save the Queen is an incredibley depressing dirge.
Now, I'm not 100% up on the situation, but I can't see Castro being overthrown anytime soon. And I don't see any guarantees that his replacement will be better. Are you going to snub them forever?
------------------ "I can't believe we're actually gonna meet Guru Lou. Everyone says he's the wisest man in the universe. He's sensitive, creative, has a great sense of humour, and he's a really smooth dancer. *giggles*" "You're confused Polly. We're not meeting Paul Newman." - Polly & Speedy; Samurai Pizza Cats
posted
Sure. Why not? Its really an issue of choice. No country should be forced, pressured, or otherwise coerced into trading with another country that they have serious differences with. No one in Great Britain, for example, went up in arms when the USA stopped trading with Japan and Nazi Germany prior to America's entry into World War Two. However, to press the arguments of those who believe the USA should trade with Cuba to their logical extreme, then the USA should have been selling Japan and Nazi Germany scrap metal, oil, and other commodities despite our extreme political differences, while Great Britain and the rest of Western Europe were fighting for their lives. The correlation is quite the same.
I have some serious problems with trading with China concerning their use of (let's just call it what it is) slave labor in certain industries. Therefore, I have made the personal choice not to purchase goods manufactured in China. That's my right. No one can force me to buy their goods, just as the USA is under no obligation to trade with Cuba.
Also, while The Star Spangled Banner is a wonderful tune when done properly, it was essentially copied from an English song, and is therefore not completely American. I prefer America The Beautiful, myself. No offense to the English intended.
------------------ Everything in life I ever needed to know I learned from The Simpsons.
posted
Now, I guess you could call me a revisionist marxist(in that I believe communism will eventually succeed, and it won't require some violent revolution, ie China, N. Korea, Cuba, USSR, etc, etc, etc: They sort of "jumped the gun") but it bothers me when people take such an anti-communist view of the world. I dislike N. Korea, and Cuba just like the next guy, but not because they're communist nations, but that their more along the lines of a totalitarian dictatorship. Actually, I have trouble accepting them as communist at all( they seemed to have moved too far away from Marx and the French Utopians) It bothers me even further when the west takes the attitude that "we're mighter than thou." I mean, our whole society is driven by greed. Why do you think more people aren't crying out against human rights violations in Africa, hmmm? Because they don't have a viable market for our products. But hey, that's just my opinion.
As for, Castro he's almost 70 now, right? and you know, its f*cking hilarious that he's still around. I mean, how many presidents has he outlived 3, 4? He may not be a very nice guy, but nobody seems to be able to get rid of him. (Though a Wicked baseball player, apparently)
------------------ "Homer, you're dumb as a mule and twice as ugly, if a strange man offers you a ride, I say take it"-Abe S.
[This message has been edited by USS Vanguard (edited July 24, 2000).]
[This message has been edited by USS Vanguard (edited July 24, 2000).]
posted
"(Though a Wicked baseball player, apparently)"
Darned right! The Boston Red Sox drafted him, if I'm remembering correctly. If only he'd signed the contract!
First, I'm not taking an automatic knee-jerk "communism is all evil" stance. Indeed, there are many facets of pure communist thought that are remarkably like the ideas expressed within the Declaration of Independence and the US Constitution, concepts like equality and egalitarianism. The problem is that no pure communist state has ever existed. Rather, they are warped and twisted into something only vaguely resembling what they were intended to be. For example, where in Marxist thought is the idea that communism means a lifelong dictatorship? I would posit that Castro adopted that idea from Lenin and Stalin (the dictatorship of the proletariat). I always thought that communism meant the ultimate withering away of the strong central government. Therefore, what we are seeing in Cuba isn't true communism. Perhaps someday we will see such a thing, but not anytime soon.
------------------ Everything in life I ever needed to know I learned from The Simpsons.
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