posted
Of course, that ignores the fact that all medical reports at the time said that he was perfectly healthy for a man his age.
But anyway, just hypothetically speaking, who could Bush appoint as his VP if Dick resigned/died? Couldn't be a senator. Probably not House, either. Some governor? How 'bout Jeb?
------------------ Disclaimer: "All references to vices and of the supernatural contained in this game are for entertainment purposes only. _Over_The_Edge_ does not promote satanisim, belief in magic, drug use, violence, sexual deviation, body piercing, cynical attitudes toward the government, freedom of expression, or any other action or belief not condoned by the authorities." - `OverTheEdge'
posted
4 heart attacks...pretty good for a man of 60. Yup, pretty damned good.
------------------ I should've known you were the only one stupid enough to kidnap you! Now get down here so I can spank you in front of this gawking rabble ~ C. Montgomery Burns
posted
Actually, if Cheney's own doctor had been allowed to discuss the current VP's medical condition...
Dr. Denton Cooley, a Houston heart-surgeon, released a statement vouching for Cheney's health. Ahem: Cooley never examined Cheney, either.
Cooley spoke with Cheney's doctor, then released a statement that said (among other things) that "Mr. Cheney is in good health with normal cardiac function."
Well, all good but ...
Too bad Cheney's doc at the time was Dr. Jonathan Reiner, and he issued a correction saying he had not given Cheney such a glowing report, adding that he "did not characterize him as having normal cardiac function."
Cheney's health condition is no secret. For some reason, Bush wanted a VP with health problems.
------------------ Star Trek Gamma Quadrant Average Rated 6.27 out of 10 Smileys by Fabrux (with four eps posted) *** "Oh, yes, screw logic, let's go for a theory with no evidence!" -Omega 11:48am, Jan. 19th, 2001 **** "The candidate who slimed John McCain in the primaries and smeared Al Gore in the general election is now the president who pledges to elevate the nation's tone and bring civility to our discorse. Kind of like Michael Corleone brought peace to the mob by killing the heads of the other four families." --Paul Begala, Is Our Children Learning?
posted
Perhaps he's not prejudiced against those with high risk of medical problems?
J/k, JK.
I'd say he wanted a VP with a history of heart trouble because he wanted the best man for the job. If Cheney ceases to be able to perform his duty, he'll resign, and be replaced. It's not some horrible mark on one's presidency to have to replace the VP due to his health.
------------------ Disclaimer: "All references to vices and of the supernatural contained in this game are for entertainment purposes only. _Over_The_Edge_ does not promote satanisim, belief in magic, drug use, violence, sexual deviation, body piercing, cynical attitudes toward the government, freedom of expression, or any other action or belief not condoned by the authorities." - `OverTheEdge'
posted
I don't mean to say it is. Simply that Cheney's health difficulties should be considered now before they get any worse ...
------------------ Star Trek Gamma Quadrant Average Rated 6.27 out of 10 Smileys by Fabrux (with four eps posted) *** "Oh, yes, screw logic, let's go for a theory with no evidence!" -Omega 11:48am, Jan. 19th, 2001 **** "The candidate who slimed John McCain in the primaries and smeared Al Gore in the general election is now the president who pledges to elevate the nation's tone and bring civility to our discorse. Kind of like Michael Corleone brought peace to the mob by killing the heads of the other four families." --Paul Begala, Is Our Children Learning?
posted
I want to know, what does it matter? The man is taking care of himself. He's getting fixed up, possibly in better condition than before. There is no reason for us to believe that he won't be up for performing his duties as normal, so why consider it? If something happens where he's incapacitated, then maybe such things should be explored.
And Jay, I don't know what's happened to you of late. You used to be someone who would bring information to the discussion, but your posts are getting more snide and pointless. What's the deal?
------------------ "President Bush. It's fun saying that. Go ahead, you try." - M. Lucinsky, Spectrum Editor
"Being a liberal is one of the most gutless choices you can make. It doesn't require you to think, it only requires you to feel." - Rush Limbaugh
posted
Raven's right. There's no reason for him to resign while he can still do his job.
------------------ Disclaimer: "All references to vices and of the supernatural contained in this game are for entertainment purposes only. _Over_The_Edge_ does not promote satanisim, belief in magic, drug use, violence, sexual deviation, body piercing, cynical attitudes toward the government, freedom of expression, or any other action or belief not condoned by the authorities." - `OverTheEdge'
posted
It should be noted that Cheney himself offered to step down from the position of VP nominee when he suffered his earlier heart attack.
Guys, look, the dude's got health problems. Frankly, if he wants to stay in office and croak, I ain't gonna complain about it. I just think this is what it's all leading to: Cheney's going to die in office.
------------------ Star Trek Gamma Quadrant Average Rated 6.27 out of 10 Smileys by Fabrux (with four eps posted) *** "Oh, yes, screw logic, let's go for a theory with no evidence!" -Omega 11:48am, Jan. 19th, 2001 **** "The candidate who slimed John McCain in the primaries and smeared Al Gore in the general election is now the president who pledges to elevate the nation's tone and bring civility to our discorse. Kind of like Michael Corleone brought peace to the mob by killing the heads of the other four families." --Paul Begala, Is Our Children Learning?
posted
Yes JR, you are right. And I mean that. I have been more cynical of late.
To be honest I've been a bit tired of late of bringing information to the table only to have it ignored. Or at the very least getting a single sentence attacked while leaving the rest of the argument untouched.
That stuff don't fly with me and it shouldn't with others. So to show my frustration at that I go for the one-liner...though not always.
And bear in mind, that to really have information to impart...I mean good stuff with good arguments...it takes time and effort to get out there and read. And it takes time not to have a limited reading. A reading more focused on theory...social and cultural theory.
You want my honest non-jaded opinion of the situation about Herr Chenny? He never should have run for the office of vice-president having had 3 heart attacks at the time. And then having had the 4th, he should have stepped asside immediately.
I'll tell you why.
I disagree with his politics.
It is dishonest for the oposite side to say that a 60 year old man who has had 4 heart attacks is in good health for a man his age.
He can't perform in a high stress and high time consuming job from the position of having heart trouble because:
a) Even the procedure today caused him to be under enough sedation that he could not fufill his duties as Vice-President for the time. As president? Who knows.
b) When the pooh hits the fan he has a greater chance of another heart attack.
c) If his heart causes problems during a time of national crisis that is only going to distract Double U or if Dick is president due to circumstances...well that is clearly something we do not need as a nation.
d) Using today is an example, he is clearly not doing his job as vice-president. He is rightly taking care of his heart...and that means that he is not governing.
------------------ I should've known you were the only one stupid enough to kidnap you! Now get down here so I can spank you in front of this gawking rabble ~ C. Montgomery Burns
[This message has been edited by Jay (edited March 06, 2001).]
Which president was it that had a tumor that should have killed him? He survived. LBJ has been described as a walking corpse. We STILL don't know Clinton's medical history. Cheney's hardly the worst thing to come down the pike, medically.
a) Even the procedure today caused him to be under enough sedation that he could not fufill his duties as Vice-President for the time.
Oh, no, we couldn't live without the VP for a day, now could we? I mean, the entire country'll fall apart without one relatively minor part of one branch of the government.
Heck, man, Reagan got SHOT, literally within an inch of his life, and still managed to perform his job within 24 hours. And he was older than Cheney at the time.
b) When the pooh hits the fan he has a greater chance of another heart attack.
I'll wait for the doctors' reports on that one. One of the things they did this time around was to... reenforce his angioplasty? I believe that's the correct terminology. As I understand it, the new type of device that they inserted to open the blocked artery doesn't colapse, like the old one did.
Look, if the doctors' reports say that he's at great risk, then I'd say yeah, he probably should resign, and he probably will. Maybe take up some other position in the administration, but not be VP, and thus not in the succession. But I haven't seen a medical report to that effect.
------------------ Disclaimer: "All references to vices and of the supernatural contained in this game are for entertainment purposes only. _Over_The_Edge_ does not promote satanisim, belief in magic, drug use, violence, sexual deviation, body piercing, cynical attitudes toward the government, freedom of expression, or any other action or belief not condoned by the authorities." - `OverTheEdge'
You're ignoring other parts of Jay's arguments. And you forget that Reagan's doctors later said that Bush should've taken over duties as President because Reagan was NOT in that good condition.
But, hey, he's YOUR VP -- you don't give a damn about his health, not my problem.
------------------ Star Trek Gamma Quadrant Average Rated 6.27 out of 10 Smileys by Fabrux (with four eps posted) *** "Oh, yes, screw logic, let's go for a theory with no evidence!" -Omega 11:48am, Jan. 19th, 2001 **** "The candidate who slimed John McCain in the primaries and smeared Al Gore in the general election is now the president who pledges to elevate the nation's tone and bring civility to our discorse. Kind of like Michael Corleone brought peace to the mob by killing the heads of the other four families." --Paul Begala, Is Our Children Learning?
It is dishonest for the oposite side to say that a 60 year old man who has had 4 heart attacks is in good health for a man his age.
Some people have said it, fine. It is up to you whether or not you believe it. I don't even need to go into the mulititude of dishonest things of the Democrats.
Even the procedure today caused him to be under enough sedation that he could not fufill his duties as Vice-President for the time. As president? Who knows.
I think Omega sufficiently argued against this.
When the pooh hits the fan he has a greater chance of another heart attack.
Same with this.
If his heart causes problems during a time of national crisis that is only going to distract Double U or if Dick is president due to circumstances...well that is clearly something we do not need as a nation.
What if, what if, what if... Since the future is not clear even to you, Jay, you cannot say that this will be a problem. There is very little chance of a national crisis, smaller chance that Cheney will have heart trouble at the same time, AND even smaller that he'd be President due to "circumstances." Paranoia, or wishful thinking, Jay?
Using today is an example, he is clearly not doing his job as vice-president. He is rightly taking care of his heart...and that means that he is not governing.
What are you trying to say? Our elected officials need to be on the job, 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, 365 days a year? They're not robots, Jay. No one asked that Clinton to resign after farking his knee, or Reagan after being shot.
And Jeff, Cheney IS your vice president, whether you like it or not. If you have a serious problem with it, then you can always emmigrate. I hear Canada has a lot of nice people.
------------------ "President Bush. It's fun saying that. Go ahead, you try." - M. Lucinsky, Spectrum Editor
"Being a liberal is one of the most gutless choices you can make. It doesn't require you to think, it only requires you to feel." - Rush Limbaugh
[This message has been edited by Jeff Raven (edited March 06, 2001).]
And Jeff, Cheney IS your vice president, whether you like it or not. If you have a serious problem with it, then you can always emmigrate. I hear Canada has a lot of nice people.
I was simply reiterating a sentiment expressed by many Congressional Republicans after Clinton won election. They told Democrats that Clinton "wasn't their president." But, since he is MY VP (as you point out), I'd like to get someone in office who isn't putting his health in danger. My God -- how are you going to feel when he croaks on the job?
Second -- fuck you. A very Republican ideal that if people don't like the way the country is run, they should leave. How very ... ignorant, frankly. My whole argument here is that Mr. Cheney's health is in danger, and you're telling me to leave the country. Forgive me for caring about someone's health. Jesus Fucking Christ.
Heck, man, Reagan got SHOT, literally within an inch of his life, and still managed to perform his job within 24 hours. And he was older than Cheney at the time.
Reagan's physician at the time stated that the Twenty-Fifth Ammendment should have been invoked to transfer presidential powers temporarily to VP Bush which Reagan was under general anesthesia and recovering from surgery. Sorry, but when the guy's doctor says he wasn't able execute his duties, that means more to me than your spin, Omega.
Oh, no, we couldn't live without the VP for a day, now could we? I mean, the entire country'll fall apart without one relatively minor part of one branch of the government.
Sure, until George W. Bush gets assassinated, or something like that, because then Cheney becomes President. Unless, of course, he's at GWU Hospital suffering from (or recovering from) a heart attack. Right, my bad, a "mild" heart attack. Really, you're showing an incredible ignorance for this possibility.
What are you trying to say? Our elected officials need to be on the job, 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, 365 days a year? They're not robots, Jay. No one asked that Clinton to resign after farking his knee, or Reagan after being shot.
No, of course not, Jeff. However, there's a big difference between being on vacation in the country-side (or even limping about with a crutch with a bad knee), then being in the hospital recovering from a heart attack. If Bush got shot, and Cheney was in the hospital with a heart attack -- well, gee, wouldn't that be wonderful. Actually, that would be wonderful. Why am I arguing for Dick Cheney's health here? I don't understand it.
Some people have said it, fine. It is up to you whether or not you believe it. I don't even need to go into the mulititude of dishonest things of the Democrats.
It is the truth, however. Bush's campaign lied about Cheney's health, including getting doctors (who had never examined Cheney) to say he was in good health, forcing Cheney's actual doctors to make press releases saying they had never said that.
How typical, Jeff. You're all 100% for calling Democrats liars, but when Republicans are shown to do the same exact thing, you say it's okay "because the Democrats do it!!!" Sheeeesh.
I disagree with his politics.
That shouldn't matter in this discussion.
Talk about biased. You didn't even make note of Jay's use of the winky-smiley face, which to anyone with eyes clearly shows that this remark is not meant to "matter" in this discussion, but just to be a funny remark. Chill. Out.
To sum up:
Dick Cheney is in bad health. Republicans want to defend his right to stay in office and suffer the health related consequences. Others would like Mr. Cheney to resign so that he might have a better chance of living a full and long life.
*ahem*
------------------ Star Trek Gamma Quadrant Average Rated 6.27 out of 10 Smileys by Fabrux (with four eps posted) *** "Oh, yes, screw logic, let's go for a theory with no evidence!" -Omega 11:48am, Jan. 19th, 2001 **** "The candidate who slimed John McCain in the primaries and smeared Al Gore in the general election is now the president who pledges to elevate the nation's tone and bring civility to our discorse. Kind of like Michael Corleone brought peace to the mob by killing the heads of the other four families." --Paul Begala, Is Our Children Learning?
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