posted
Reagan's physician at the time stated that the Twenty-Fifth Ammendment should have been invoked to transfer presidential powers temporarily to VP Bush which Reagan was under general anesthesia and recovering from surgery.
WHICH IT WAS! We've been through this before, Jeff. Get it straight: Bush acted as president as provided for in the twenty-fifth ammendment after Reagan was shot. Heck, it was in the frikin' WORLD BOOK, last I checked! Do you do ANY research for yourself, or do you just accept what you're told?
Sure, until George W. Bush gets assassinated, or something like that, because then Cheney becomes President.
And the odds of this happening are infinitesimal. You may as well worry that someone's gonna try and blow up a joint session of congress.
If Bush got shot, and Cheney was in the hospital with a heart attack
Cheney has not been in the hospital for a heart problem for so much as a week since his... what was it, triple bypass a decade or so back? You have no reason to think he will need to be.
Why am I arguing for Dick Cheney's health here?
Good question, considering that his doctors don't seem to see any need for him to even reduce his workload, much less cut it all together. I trust their opinion more than yours, Jeff.
Bush's campaign lied about Cheney's health, including getting doctors (who had never examined Cheney) to say he was in good health, forcing Cheney's actual doctors to make press releases saying they had never said that.
And you have evidence of this, I presume?
Dick Cheney is in bad health.
Not according to his doctors.
Republicans want to defend his right to stay in office and suffer the health related consequences.
His doctors don't seem to think that there would be any. Besides, he DOES have the right to stay in office and suffer any possible health-related consequences, be they heart attacks, bullets, or bombs.
Others would like Mr. Cheney to resign so that he might have a better chance of living a full and long life.
You base this on...?
Look, if the man thought that his health was in danger, or that his supposed lack thereof would keep him from doing his job, he'd resign. Remember, he's not in it for power, like recent occupants. He's there to do the job. If he couldn't, there'd be no reason for him to be there, and he'd leave.
------------------ Disclaimer: "All references to vices and of the supernatural contained in this game are for entertainment purposes only. _Over_The_Edge_ does not promote satanisim, belief in magic, drug use, violence, sexual deviation, body piercing, cynical attitudes toward the government, freedom of expression, or any other action or belief not condoned by the authorities." - `OverTheEdge'
Do you know who Dr. Jonathon Reiner is? He's Mr. Cheney's cardiologist, and he contradicted a statement by Dr. Denton Cooley (whom the Bush campaign hired to vouch for Cheney's health), that in fact, Cheney "did not have normal cardiac function."
New York Times, 7/25/00
First, Omega claimed this: Heck, man, Reagan got SHOT, literally within an inch of his life, and still managed to perform his job within 24 hours. And he was older than Cheney at the time.
Then, Omega posted THIS gem: WHICH IT WAS! We've been through this before, Jeff. Get it straight: Bush acted as president as provided for in the twenty-fifth ammendment after Reagan was shot. Heck, it was in the frikin' WORLD BOOK, last I checked! Do you do ANY research for yourself, or do you just accept what you're told?
Now, regarding Reagan: first you say that he was able to function in the capacity of office even though he'd just been shot, then you backtrack and say that, no, Bush had in fact been given power under the 25th Ammendment. Make up your mind, please, because you've contradicted yourself. If powers had been removed from him via the 25th Ammendment, I honestly doubt he'd've gotten them back within the 24 hours you claim.
However, it should be pointed out that powers were NOT transfered to Bush. Otherwise, why would his Doc release a statement (albeit, after Bush had been elected), saying that powers should have been transfered to Bush via the Twenty-Fifth Ammendment if they had been? Well, because they hadn't been.
Barrett, Lawrence I. Gambling with History: Reagan in the White House.
Where are you sources, Omega ... ? Just wondering.
Dick Cheney's health is not in dispute. As proved by this latest incident, and his earlier heart attack (his fouth), the man is clearly not in the best of health.
What is in question is whether or not he should remain in office. So far, the case made for staying in office hasn't been made very well, and seems to boil down to, "if the man wants to have a heart attack, let him!" and "the President will never be assassinated or have anything bad happen, the chances are really small!"
Whatever.
------------------ Star Trek Gamma Quadrant Average Rated 6.27 out of 10 Smileys by Fabrux (with four eps posted) *** "Oh, yes, screw logic, let's go for a theory with no evidence!" -Omega 11:48am, Jan. 19th, 2001 **** "The candidate who slimed John McCain in the primaries and smeared Al Gore in the general election is now the president who pledges to elevate the nation's tone and bring civility to our discorse. Kind of like Michael Corleone brought peace to the mob by killing the heads of the other four families." --Paul Begala, Is Our Children Learning?
[This message has been edited by JeffKardde (edited March 06, 2001).]
posted
first you say that he was able to function in the capacity of office even though he'd just been shot, then you backtrack and say that, no, Bush had in fact been given power under the 25th Ammendment.
This is not contradictory, as you would know if you would be so kind as to actually read the things that you're commenting upon. I stated that Reagan was performing his duties 24 hours after being shot. I also stated that Bush was performing Reagan's duties for a time after Reagan was shot. The conclusion: Bush was performing the duties of President of the United States for the 24 hours that Reagan wasn't. Duh.
why would his Doc release a statement (albeit, after Bush had been elected), saying that powers should have been transfered to Bush via the Twenty-Fifth Ammendment if they had been?
Ignorance, obviously. Medical doctors don't have much legal experience, usually.
------------------ Disclaimer: "All references to vices and of the supernatural contained in this game are for entertainment purposes only. _Over_The_Edge_ does not promote satanisim, belief in magic, drug use, violence, sexual deviation, body piercing, cynical attitudes toward the government, freedom of expression, or any other action or belief not condoned by the authorities." - `OverTheEdge'
posted
If you'd replied to my entire post, instead of just cropping what you wanted to, I addressed that point that you accuse me of not making. I bolded the neccessary parts for you.
Now, regarding Reagan: first you say that he was able to function in the capacity of office even though he'd just been shot, then you backtrack and say that, no, Bush had in fact been given power under the 25th Ammendment. Make up your mind, please, because you've contradicted yourself. If powers had been removed from him via the 25th Ammendment, I honestly doubt he'd've gotten them back within the 24 hours you claim.
You've yet to post your source for your claim that the 25th Ammendment was invoked, instead, you attack a Doc's legal knowledge. In fact, it would be historical knowledge in this case.
Please back up your claim.
------------------ Star Trek Gamma Quadrant Average Rated 6.27 out of 10 Smileys by Fabrux (with four eps posted) *** "Oh, yes, screw logic, let's go for a theory with no evidence!" -Omega 11:48am, Jan. 19th, 2001 **** "The candidate who slimed John McCain in the primaries and smeared Al Gore in the general election is now the president who pledges to elevate the nation's tone and bring civility to our discorse. Kind of like Michael Corleone brought peace to the mob by killing the heads of the other four families." --Paul Begala, Is Our Children Learning?
posted
I already told you: it was listed in the World Book encyclopedia. That's not a good enough source for you? Well, I seem to recall encountering the information in a Social Studies textbook I once used, and on some game show, likely "Jeopardy!". Better?
------------------ Disclaimer: "All references to vices and of the supernatural contained in this game are for entertainment purposes only. _Over_The_Edge_ does not promote satanisim, belief in magic, drug use, violence, sexual deviation, body piercing, cynical attitudes toward the government, freedom of expression, or any other action or belief not condoned by the authorities." - `OverTheEdge'
posted
You seem to recall reading it in a social studies text? It was on Jeopardy? Fine, Data told Picard that Ireland reunifies in 2033, but I'm not going to take that to the bank.
Which World Book Encyclopdia? What does the entry say? Does it specificly say that the 25th Ammendment was invoked, or that Bush took over for a few hours? Have you even READ the Twenty-Fifth Ammendment? It's impossible to execute it, then reverse it in the short time span you claim. Well, okay, not impossible, but given the circumstances and that his chief physician was saying "bad idea" it would be super-highly improbable.
Section 4 Whenever the Vice-President and a majority of either the principle officers of the executive departments or of such other body as Congress may by law provide, transmit to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives their written declaration that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office, the Vice-President shall immediately assume the powers and duties of the office as Acting President.
Thereafter, when the President transmits to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives his written declaration that no inability exists, he shall resume the powers and duties of his office unless the Vice President and a majority of either the principle officers of the executive department[s] or of such other body as Congress may by law provide, transmit within four days to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives their written declaration that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office. Thereupon Congress shall decide the issue, assembling within forty-eight hours for that purpose if not in session. If the Congress, within twenty-one days after Congress is required to assemble, determines by two-thirds vote of both Houses that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office, the Vice-President shall continue to discharge the same as Acting President; otherwise, the President shall resume the powers and duties of his office.
So, what you're expecting people to believe, is that less than a day after being shot so seriously his Doc declared him to be unfit for office, that Congress and the VP (with no disent from any of the above members listed able to disent) said, "wait a sec, his Docs say he can't do it, but what the hell?" and found him capable of executing the duties of his office -- in less than a day?
No. Sorry. While I don't doubt that George Bush ran the show for a little bit, the 25th Ammendment was at no time invoked. First of Two: you got any insight on this?
I notice you didn't reply to Cheney's health being poor. Wonder why.
[This message has been edited by JeffKardde (edited March 06, 2001).]
"Heck, man, Reagan got SHOT, literally within an inch of his life, and still managed to perform his job within 24 hours."
This assumes Reagan ever performed his job at all. :-)
------------------ "...I know this board in secret, intimate ways which are beyond your comprehension.... Let's just say that people should *not* be telling me what to do; it should always be the other way around." -"Red Quacker", conspiracy theorist and contemporary lunatic
I didn't reply to it because I'd already beaten the snot out of the subject. Cheney's health is a non-issue. Heck, this latest incident wasn't even caused by Cheney's supposed poor health. It was caused by a failure in a device that they inserted when he had that minor heart attack a few months back. Said device fails around a third of the time.
------------------ Disclaimer: "All references to vices and of the supernatural contained in this game are for entertainment purposes only. _Over_The_Edge_ does not promote satanisim, belief in magic, drug use, violence, sexual deviation, body piercing, cynical attitudes toward the government, freedom of expression, or any other action or belief not condoned by the authorities." - `OverTheEdge'
posted
If it's a non-issue, why does the press make such a big deal of it? Oh, right, I forgot -- vast left wing conspiracy. My bad.
------------------ Star Trek Gamma Quadrant Average Rated 6.27 out of 10 Smileys by Fabrux (with four eps posted) *** "Oh, yes, screw logic, let's go for a theory with no evidence!" -Omega 11:48am, Jan. 19th, 2001 **** "The candidate who slimed John McCain in the primaries and smeared Al Gore in the general election is now the president who pledges to elevate the nation's tone and bring civility to our discorse. Kind of like Michael Corleone brought peace to the mob by killing the heads of the other four families." --Paul Begala, Is Our Children Learning?
------------------ Disclaimer: "All references to vices and of the supernatural contained in this game are for entertainment purposes only. _Over_The_Edge_ does not promote satanisim, belief in magic, drug use, violence, sexual deviation, body piercing, cynical attitudes toward the government, freedom of expression, or any other action or belief not condoned by the authorities." - `OverTheEdge'
posted
I guess this IS just me, but I do tend to think four heart-attacks; open-heart, quadruple-bypass surgery; cancer and gout = Poor Health.
Right, I forgot, Democrats replaced Cheney for those medical conditions with a clone programmed with bad health. Yep. And people say Red Quaker is a conspiracy theorist!
------------------ Star Trek Gamma Quadrant Average Rated 6.27 out of 10 Smileys by Fabrux (with four eps posted) *** "Oh, yes, screw logic, let's go for a theory with no evidence!" -Omega 11:48am, Jan. 19th, 2001 **** "The candidate who slimed John McCain in the primaries and smeared Al Gore in the general election is now the president who pledges to elevate the nation's tone and bring civility to our discorse. Kind of like Michael Corleone brought peace to the mob by killing the heads of the other four families." --Paul Begala, Is Our Children Learning?
quote:Oh, no, we couldn't live without the VP for a day, now could we? I mean, the entire country'll fall apart without one relatively minor part of one branch of the government.
I'm sorry to disagree with you again, but the vice-president in not a cracker salesman. I think that even you would agree that in the current administration his is a more important job...even more so than other presidencies.
quote:b) When the pooh hits the fan he has a greater chance of another heart attack.
I'll wait for the doctors' reports on that one
Now, when it comes down to it, I'm not a doctor. However, when it comes down to it, Dick Cheney has heart disease. And when it comes down to it anyone who has heart disease and has had 4 heart attacks in the past is more at risk than the rest of us.
And anyone who has a job that requires all the work, and Bush has put a great deal on Cheney..meetings, travel ect..., who has heart disease and has had 4 heart attacks in the past is more at risk than the rest of us.
In my opinion, the man never should have run for office and I think he won't make the whole 4 years. Which leaves us with a person the public didn't elect in the white house....oh, wait, there is another one there already.
------------------ I should've known you were the only one stupid enough to kidnap you! Now get down here so I can spank you in front of this gawking rabble ~ C. Montgomery Burns
posted
Isn't it funny, how the left says its a conspiracy but not a conscious one. Its like involuntary muscle movements, the press supports the right. Why? Because its owned by people with money, who make the top decisons, who are from the right.
posted
Erm -- if the press is owned by the people with money, who make the top decisions, who are on the right ... why then is the liberal left-wing biased?
And, Daryus, how did this come out of a topic on Cheney's health? Just wondering.
------------------ Star Trek Gamma Quadrant Average Rated 6.27 out of 10 Smileys by Fabrux (with four eps posted) *** "Oh, yes, screw logic, let's go for a theory with no evidence!" -Omega 11:48am, Jan. 19th, 2001 **** "The candidate who slimed John McCain in the primaries and smeared Al Gore in the general election is now the president who pledges to elevate the nation's tone and bring civility to our discorse. Kind of like Michael Corleone brought peace to the mob by killing the heads of the other four families." --Paul Begala, Is Our Children Learning?
[This message has been edited by JeffKardde (edited March 06, 2001).]
Um... no? This does not fit observational evidence. At least, not on THIS continent.
Jay:
The man's at more risk of being shot than most of us, too. He knows the territory. He knows the medical reports. He knows his body. He knows the risks.
I would point out that since the quadruple bypass surgery, he has had exactly one, very minor heart attack. That's in, what, ten years? And that's at age sixty. It would not be unusual for a sixty year old man to have a minor heart attack. There is NO reason as yet to think that Cheney won't finish his term. The bypass fixed whatever was wrong from the first three, and the device installed and recently replaced corrected the fourth. Maybe he is at a higher risk of heart attack than your average sixty year old man. But if perfect health is a criterion for your elected officials, why'd you elect Clinton without demanding to see his medical history?
------------------ Disclaimer: "All references to vices and of the supernatural contained in this game are for entertainment purposes only. _Over_The_Edge_ does not promote satanisim, belief in magic, drug use, violence, sexual deviation, body piercing, cynical attitudes toward the government, freedom of expression, or any other action or belief not condoned by the authorities." - `OverTheEdge'
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