posted
"Because what right have we to punish people who do wrong, if there is no wrong to begin with? What's the point of having morals at all, if they only apply selectively? If there is no right and wrong, then what's the point of government and law?"
This is why we have different countries (and different states). You do your thing, and we'll do ours, and we won't bother each other about it. Etc.
------------------ Frank's Home Page "I remember my mum telling me 'don't wear that jacket, it doesn't go with your top.' And I said 'Screw you mum, I'll wear what I'll like'. And then I went and changed tops." - Liam Ka--thingy
posted
Amazing. I've just been simultaneously lambasted for my own "irresponsibility" while having sex, and for having sex at all. Well, on the first charge, I can hardly be held to blame for the failure of a moulded piece of latex - unless Omeychops believe it was somehow divinely ordained and should be accepted as Fate? And as for having sex at all, unless for deliberate procreation, well I'm guilty. On the other hand, having observed Smega's rather nauseating attempst to cozy up to LOA, I'd say the chances of him ever being in a similar situation, whether deliberate or not, are slim to none.
------------------ "I do prefer the arse, but you can't dismiss the leg. They're joined at the hip, so to speak."
posted
I've decided to kill you all. I'm allowed to, because my belief system says that's completely ok, and actually demands me to kill everyone I come into contact with. You can't hold me accountable because you must respect my belief system even if it is different from yours.
Bullshit. There are absolute rights and wrongs. Would anyone disagree that these absolutes are manifested by most of the Ten Commandments? Thou Shalt not Murder, Thou Shalt not Covet thy Neighbor's wife, etc?
------------------ "I'm not like George Bush. If he wins or loses, life goes on. I will do anything to win." - Al Gore, Newsweek, 1999
posted
No, that's why you SHOULD, so you can stop the extremely rare lunitics from killing you.
Honestly, you seem to think that if you put a gun into the hands of a normal citizen, they become a homicidal maniac, but if you take the gun away, they become normal again...
------------------ "You know, you--you let a wolf save your life, they make you pay and pay and pay..." - Fraser, "due South"
posted
"This is why we have different countries (and different states). You do your thing, and we'll do ours, and we won't bother each other about it. Etc."
So you're saying anything the 'people' in a country (never mind that the 'people' rarely make these kinds of decisions anyway) decide to do to themselves inside the boundaries of their own country, is okay, and we shouldn't get involved?
Need I say that this isn't a workable solution? Need I say how many million MORE people would have died if we'd all followed that advice in 1930-s Germany, 1990's Rwanda, Yugoslavia, etc etc?
Oh, wait, we DID follow that example in Rwanda.
------------------ "Ed Gruberman, you fail to grasp Ty Kwan Leap. Approach me, that you might see." -- The Master
posted
"I've decided to kill you all. I'm allowed to, because my belief system says that's completely ok, and actually demands me to kill everyone I come into contact with."
You can do this with other people who share your belief system, but if you try it with those who don't, expect trouble.
"So you're saying anything the 'people' in a country (never mind that the 'people' rarely make these kinds of decisions anyway)
Admittedly, this depends on the assumption that the people can choose their form of government, and leave at any time they wish.
"decide to do to themselves inside the boundaries of their own country, is okay, and we shouldn't get involved?"
Yes. I mean, if they ask for help or whatever, that's a different story, but I think it's arrogant to think that you can go around being the ultimate moral arbiter...
------------------ Frank's Home Page "I remember my mum telling me 'don't wear that jacket, it doesn't go with your top.' And I said 'Screw you mum, I'll wear what I'll like'. And then I went and changed tops." - Liam Ka--thingy
posted
'That they can leave whenever they wish' is, one must admit, a flimsy assumption, and certainly not true in most countries that we'd have to worry about, where dictatorship is the norm. It wasn't true in Cold-War Eastern Europe...
And who decides what 'asking for help' is? How many people does it take to ask to intervene? 1?, 100?, 1000?, all of them?
And what if the people who don't want you intervening control the major sources of information out of that country?
------------------ "Ed Gruberman, you fail to grasp Ty Kwan Leap. Approach me, that you might see." -- The Master
posted
Well, there you go...if the government is working against the will of the people (and you're absolutely sure of it), I suppose intervention would be justified.
------------------ Frank's Home Page "I remember my mum telling me 'don't wear that jacket, it doesn't go with your top.' And I said 'Screw you mum, I'll wear what I'll like'. And then I went and changed tops." - Liam Ka--thingy
posted
How about if the government of that country, acting WITH the will of the people, (or at least, with their silence, implying consent), invades another country and subjugates ITS people?
China-Tibet Iraq-Kuwait USSR-Afghanistan N. Korea-S. Korea
What if a government, with a majority of its people's consent, abuses a minority of its people?
Pre Civil-War US, perhaps even pre-civil rights act Southern US Germany c,1939 Pinochet Chile China again
Tell you what, if the hypothetical "White Christian" USA ever comes to pass, PLEASE invade!
------------------ "Ed Gruberman, you fail to grasp Ty Kwan Leap. Approach me, that you might see." -- The Master
posted
No moral law is absolute. Thou shall not kill. Except in self defense. Or in times of war. Honor thy father and mother. Except if your parents happen to be genocidal warlords, and expect you to do the right thing by joining the family business. Even the Golden Rule breaks down when what you want and what others want are two seperate things. In the end, all morality is personal. This is a Good Thing. Our moral laws may be digital, but we live in an analog world.
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