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Author Topic: Japanese Knifing
First of Two
Better than you
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quote:
TOTALLY EFFEACTIVE gun control can be done! So none of that "impossible" non-sense

In a country where guns are not already largely possessed by civilians of any type, yes. HERE, no.

quote:
stop the "bitching and complaining", and think about how it could very well been prevented by BANNING GUNS!

It could also have been prevented by banning lunatics. Or, if you want a real-world solution, actually ENFORCING the 10,000 existing gun laws, and a little discipline.

quote:
And for those "Government gonna walked all over us if we don't have guns" people, did the Japanese government walked all over their people?

An entirely different culture. From what I can gather, unlike our government, the Japanese governmental officials still believe that their primary duty is to their constituents, rather than their party or their 'vision.' On the other hand, I don't know how over-regulated the Japanese citizens are, do you?

quote:
(NOT freedom, because laws defined in such a way so people can own gun, therefore people have guns, not because it is one of those freedoms people are born with*)

The people who wrote the Constitution would disagree with that statement... or at least what I can decipher of it, because the language of it is starting to sound like a "Time Cube" rant. That's why they made it the SECOND most important Amendment (Right GUARANTEED to the People by which they insure all the others).

quote:
For those "gonna have to defend myself" dudes, think about what made you have to defend yourself with a gun in the first place.

Folks like you. j/k.
Well, for one, the KKK is marching in my town today. They're not SUPPOSED to be armed in any way or violent... but they're the KKK. And if there's five of them and one of me, I'd prefer to have the advantage should I need it. As long as there are people who don't care about the rights of others, and as long as there's a slightest possibility of a 'tyranny of the majority,' a wanna-be king, an Inquisition, etc., there will be a need to defend against them, and thusly a need for arms. PERIOD.

quote:
And just how many constitution in the world have that "everyone should own a gun" part?

Not enough. Might have prevented or ameliorated a lot of massacres of unarmed civilians by troops and/or rebels. Rwanda. Now let me ask you, how many countries have compulsory military service, in which people are licenced to keep their service weapons (often the much-over-maligned 'assault rifles') at home? I can think of The Swiss and the Israelis off the top of my head.

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"The best defense is not a good offense. The best defense is a terrifyingly accurate and devastatingly powerful offense, with multiply-overlapping kill zones and time-on-target artillery strikes." -- Laurence, Archangel of the Sword


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Malnurtured Snay
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quote:
As long as there are people who don't care about the rights of others, and as long as there's a slightest possibility of a 'tyranny of the majority,' a wanna-be king, an Inquisition, etc.,

This from the guy who occasionally talks about what he will do when he's dictator?

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www.malnurturedsnay.net


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First of Two
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Well, I would have in a Constitutional Tyranny. There's a slight difference. The people would retain all their original rights.

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"The best defense is not a good offense. The best defense is a terrifyingly accurate and devastatingly powerful offense, with multiply-overlapping kill zones and time-on-target artillery strikes." -- Laurence, Archangel of the Sword

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BlueElectron
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quote:
"In a country where guns are not already largely possessed by civilians of any type, yes. HERE, no."

Japanese have had successful experience in banning lethal weapons(samuri sword) owned by significant amount of the population in the past when the country under went reform.

So, if the Americans want to do it, then it's perfectly possible.

quote:
"It could also have been prevented by banning lunatics. Or, if you want a real-world solution, actually ENFORCING the 10,000 existing gun laws, and a little discipline."

Histroy has shown us again and again, when it come to REGULATIONS to control guns rather then BANNING guns, you guys are unsuccessful for most part.

quote:
"An entirely different culture. From what I can gather, unlike our government, the Japanese governmental officials still believe that their primary duty is to their constituents, rather than their party or their 'vision.' On the other hand, I don't know how over-regulated the Japanese citizens are, do you?"

Did you see "freedom fighters" here outside of Japan fighting for more "freedom" back home? I don't! Are they thoughts so regulated that they can't think for themselves? Then how about all the economy boom and technological boom that require FREE THINKING in the first place? And the part about how politic are different in Japan and USA, man, you just totally burned your own country!

quote:
"Folks like you. j/k. Well, for one, the KKK is marching in my town today. They're not SUPPOSED to be armed in any way or violent... but they're the KKK. And if there's five of them and one of me, I'd prefer to have the advantage should I need it. As long as there are people who don't care about the rights of others, and as long as there's a slightest possibility of a 'tyranny of the majority,' a wanna-be king, an Inquisition, etc., there will be a need to defend against them, and thusly a need for arms. PERIOD.

If we're comparing "developed" and "developing in later stage" countries, then I can tell you that hate crime mostly exist in white society. Hate crime are almost non-existence in Asian populations. So yeah, it's nothing to do with guns, but you guys should really do something about moral standard and education.

quote:
"Not enough. Might have prevented or ameliorated a lot of massacres of unarmed civilians by troops and/or rebels. Rwanda. Now let me ask you, how many countries have compulsory military service, in which people are licenced to keep their service weapons (often the much-over-maligned 'assault rifles') at home? I can think of The Swiss and the
Israelis off the top of my head."

We're comparing developed and developing in later stages countries, Rwanda does not come to the picture. As for countries like Israel, people knows the responsibilities of owning the gun, because of the military training they've went through. Frankly, commericals and school education is not enough to justify the right for ordinary citizen to owned guns.

--------------------
"George Washington said, 'I cannot tell a lie.'
Richard Nixon said, 'I cannot tell the truth.'
Bill Clinton said, 'I cannot tell the difference.'"

-- comedian TOM SMOTHERS, from his latest stage act with brother DICK SMOTHERS.


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Eclipse
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I said this in another forum far, far away, and will repeat it here:

The problem is not that America, or Japan, or Rwanda, or anywhere else is a violent country; the problem is that homo sapiens is a violent species.

Think about it for a moment. There are conflicts of interest in the world. It is natural for you to try and resolve those conflicts in a way beneficial to you. You employ force to do so. That 'force' may be diplomatic force (an oxymoron, perhaps), the use of a threat, or physical violence.

So, let's say someone decides to use physical violence to settle his little dispute. Given that he's going to do it, what are the chances of his inflicting fatal damage using:
(a) his bare hands?
(b) a knife or other stabbing weapon?
(c) a firearm?

Guns do kill people.
People kill people, too.
And they do it with a lot greater ease when they have guns to hand.


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First of Two
Better than you
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quote:
I can tell you that hate crime mostly exist in white society. Hate crime are almost non-existence in Asian populations

Well, I'm not exactly sure that's true. I mean, Over there, anyway. Can you back that statement up? Because from what I'm given to understand (at least, in my "History of East Asia" course,) Asians can be just as racist as anybody else. Ask the 'Dust Children,' (kids of White soldiers and Asian mothers.)

And as for 'hate crime is white,'... not according to the FBI. Their report on hate crime says that just about 48% of it is committed by whites. which means 52% isn't. Although, I admit, most of the rest isn't committed by Asians, I'd wager that that's simply because they don't make up a large chunk of the population here.

Hate does NOT have 'Property of the Caucasians' stamped on it.

And WHY doesn't Rwanda count? They're 'not developed?' What does that mean? "They don't value life like we do!" is what it sounds like... which is a racist thought at its core.

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"The best defense is not a good offense. The best defense is a terrifyingly accurate and devastatingly powerful offense, with multiply-overlapping kill zones and time-on-target artillery strikes." -- Laurence, Archangel of the Sword


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First of Two
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quote:
Japanese have had successful experience in banning lethal weapons(samuri sword) owned by significant amount of the population in the past when the country under went reform.

Yes, but the Japanese culture is far more accepting of authority than the US Culture. People here will resist. Strongly.

quote:
when it come to REGULATIONS to control guns rather then BANNING guns, you guys are unsuccessful for most part.

Only when it comes to enforcing the regulations. But we're changing that. Check out Operation Exile.

quote:
Did you see "freedom fighters" here outside of Japan fighting for more "freedom" back home? I don't!

What is the extent of your knowledge of Japanese politics? I haven't seen any 'freedom fighters' here, either, so the point is moot.

quote:
Are they thoughts so regulated that they can't think for themselves? Then how about all the economy boom and technological boom that require FREE THINKING in the first place? And the part about how politic are different in Japan and USA, man, you just totally burned your own country!

1. Ask the 'salaryman.'
2. What boom that wasn't initiated elsewhere?
3. No, I burned my government and its career politicians, not my country. There remains a difference.

quote:
Frankly, commericals and school education is not enough to justify the right for ordinary citizen to owned guns.

I agree. This is why TRAINING (military preferred, or otherwise professional) should be MANDATORY for all those who own guns. Even the NRA supports that.

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"The best defense is not a good offense. The best defense is a terrifyingly accurate and devastatingly powerful offense, with multiply-overlapping kill zones and time-on-target artillery strikes." -- Laurence, Archangel of the Sword


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Teelie
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Ok I guess for those claiming this is an isolated incident, this doesn't happen much, you skipped the part where they said
quote:
The school rampage � and a series of other recent attacks � have shattered Japan�s longtime sense of public safety and have caused many to ask whether school administrators are reacting quickly enough to the rise in violence.
Separately on Saturday, police were searching for a man who stabbed and critically injured a sixth-grade boy as he played in a park in Fukuoka state, about 560 miles southwest of Tokyo, police said. No other details were immediately available.
In Ikeda, children described the attack as 15 minutes of sheer terror.
One girl, talking to Japanese reporters, said that during the attack, one of the students managed to somehow get onto the school�s public address system.
�There was a shriek,� the girl said. �Then I heard a cry for help.�
Other students said they saw teachers and hallways spattered with blood.

It's not isolated, it happens there too, so this idea of the perfect, passive society doesn't quite work. They may vent their emotions in another way (Anime, manga, hentai anyone? ) and they've always barred weapons from the comon folk, only samurai and their form of royalty (Lords, Shoguns, Emperor, etc) had access to anything beyond simple working and food knives.
Maybe that's why they're so much more capable of limiting weapons use? Cause few people ever had access to begin with.

[ June 09, 2001: Message edited by: TLE ]

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It takes 42 muscles in your face to frown. It only takes 4 muscles to extend your arm and smack someone upside the head.


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BlueElectron
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What I meant by "hate crime in white societies part" I meant that hate crime are almost non-existence for Asians in DEVELOPED or DEVELOPING AT A LATER STAGE ASIAN COUNTRIES, now I can't say the same thing for Asian elsewhere (such as Europe or North America) because their value and believes might be different then that of Asian raise in developed or developing at later stage Asian countries.


And if hate crime does exist in Asian countries, it exist mainly on a superficial level, it virtually stop at name calling, and almost never any physical confrontation.

We got no KKK equavalent, no "white power" parade, and certainly no legal hate literature that I'm aware off, and our media never have any racist term.

For Fo2 statement about white-asian cross child in Japan: Well, what do you expect? You kicked their butt big time, there's bond to be some dissatisfaction toward ANY Americans right after the war.

Now, why make a different before under-developed countries and developed countries you ask? Because more factors are at work. When we compare developed contries, there are more or less a set of standards we can expect, such as a require level of education, a require level of personal income, a require level of social services, etc. In under-developed countries such as Rewanda, such standards cannot be apply, and more complex factors are at work, therefore we cannot compare, so they are out of the picture of this discussion.

[ June 09, 2001: Message edited by: BlueElectron ]

--------------------
"George Washington said, 'I cannot tell a lie.'
Richard Nixon said, 'I cannot tell the truth.'
Bill Clinton said, 'I cannot tell the difference.'"

-- comedian TOM SMOTHERS, from his latest stage act with brother DICK SMOTHERS.


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Daniel
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Good Lord, there are no hate crimes in Asian nations? Heh heh. Okay...what sort of information do you have to back that up? I think there are possibly fewer incidents (even in recent times) compared to the rest of "Western Civilization," but if things were allowed to get out of hand... Do you have any idea as to the extent of ethnic tensions in that area? Just to name a few: In Korea, the northerners hate the southerners, and vice versa, even though they're trying to fix things up. On a larger scale, most all Koreans (blanket statement, I know) have a strong distrust for Japanese because of the frequency with which the island nation attacked and occupied the peninsula. Then there's Vietnam, which I'm sure has high strung tensions between different political factions. The Phillipines has an interesting political situation as well, and I believe there is some active guerilla warfare being waged in that nation.

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"A celibate clergy is an especially good idea because it tends to suppress any hereditary propensity toward fanaticism."

-Eleanor Arroway, "Contact" by Carl Sagan

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BlueElectron
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Just like you said, there is TENSION between the Japanese and Korean, and that's the extend of it, no physical confrontation, there's no riot, no violent protess against each other, and probably no individual crimes commited towards each other based on racial differences.

Problem between North Korean and South Korean is based on ideological differences not racial differences.

I didn't say hate crime are non-existance in Asian, I said ALMOST! And it is so comparing to North American or European standards. There are nothing even close to the equalvalent to organizations such as KKK or Neo-Nazis in Asian Nations.

Here's a example that you requested: Americans have a racist name for every single race on the planet and that's just English language alone, who knows how many other there are in European languages. Please name a few from Asian languages.

--------------------
"George Washington said, 'I cannot tell a lie.'
Richard Nixon said, 'I cannot tell the truth.'
Bill Clinton said, 'I cannot tell the difference.'"

-- comedian TOM SMOTHERS, from his latest stage act with brother DICK SMOTHERS.


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Daniel
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I wouldn't be able to. Even though I'm a native, I don't speak the tongue.

--------------------
"A celibate clergy is an especially good idea because it tends to suppress any hereditary propensity toward fanaticism."

-Eleanor Arroway, "Contact" by Carl Sagan

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PsyLiam
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"We got no KKK equavalent, no "white power" parade, and certainly no legal hate literature that I'm aware off, and our media never have any racist term."

Not having a go, but...

I saw a program which was partly filmed in Tokyo. Looking at the people walking around, 99% of them seemed to be Asian-Japanese. Now, if you did a similar thing in, say, London, you'd be pushed to get two-thirds caucassian.
It's easier to avoid being racist when you haven't got anyone to be racist against. Racist problems in other countries aren't against the people they can't see (the English hating the French, the Welsh hating the English, everyone hating the US), but between blacks, whites, Asians, and monkeys, all living in close quarters.

Regarding banning guns in the US and how it's a different culture to Japan: The UK managed it. Admitadley nowhere nearly as effective as the US (Manchester, for example, being fairly bad), but I'd put money on us having comparitively less shootings than the US.

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Yes, you're despicable, and... and picable... and... and you're definitely, definitely despicable. How a person can get so despicable in one lifetime is beyond me. It isn't as though I haven't met a lot of people. Goodness knows it isn't that. It isn't just that... it isn't... it's... it's despicable.


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Daniel
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I think I'd have to agree with Psyliam. Most asian countries are almost completely homogenous. A little inter-asian mixing perhaps, but almost all one type of asian or another.

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"A celibate clergy is an especially good idea because it tends to suppress any hereditary propensity toward fanaticism."

-Eleanor Arroway, "Contact" by Carl Sagan

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Mucus
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Blue electron: You mean like the term which is used by the majority of Chinese to refer to anyone else...phonetically translated to "ghwai low" which means "white devil"? Something like that?
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