quote:

---

From Omega:
I challenge you to find me one person here that thinks that oral sex is, or even should be, a crime.

---

And tell me, how many states still have sodomy laws? Most of those laws consider any act other than a penis going into a vagina to be sodomy. Texas has such a law that is used against homosexuals.

quote:

---

From Omega:
Now you tell me: is it a crime to LIE about oral sex while under oath before a federal grand jury? Because that's exactly what Bill Clinton did.

---

And if you reread my post, I acknowledged that he committed a crime by lying while giving a deposition. Reread my post, Omega.

quote:

---

From Omega:
I never said that Iran-Contra didn't happen. I said that Ollie North went to prison for his crimes, for crying out loud! It HAPPENED! Obviously! But Reagan and Bush were NOT involved, as Jeff claimed they were.

---

And, once again, reread my post. Did I say "Omega is denying Iran-Contra happened!" No, I did not. I said people like you. That means people of the same devotion as you have claimed that everything about Iran-Contra was a hoax.

quote:

---

From Omega:
Remember, he was sworn to tell the WHOLE truth. He purposefully withheld information relevant to the question, in a consious attempt to deceive the jury. This is perjury.

---

Once again, I acknowledged Clinton did this. Reread, Omega.

quote:

---

From Omega:
Witch-hunts are when you try to obtain convictions, the truth be damned. This man COMMITED A CRIME.

---

Let's see, the Whitewater investigation looked at many different situations. First was the Whitewater Land Deal. Clinton and his wife were cleared of that. Then came the firing in the Travel Office. Once again, cleared of wrong-doing. The suicide of Vince Foster. Had to have three inquiries into this, but the allegations of a murder were disproven. The FBI files arriving at the White House. Cleared of wrong-doing. The Republicans hunted for something to bust Clinton on and, after many dead-ends, they succeeded with Monica Lewinsky and Paula Jones. The government paid for Starr's "investigations." It certainly wasn't his own personal fortune. Germany did not support this endeavor. The money came from the country's own coffers and, guess what, the citizens of the US keep those coffers full.

quote:

---

From Omega:
There was no chance that Carter was going to win that election. The Iranians had already decided to let the hostages go, and simply waited 'til Reagan was sworn in as a slap at Carter.

---

Gee, why would terrorists do this? They could have held the hostages longer and used them as a bargaining chip with the incoming administration. But no, the hostages were returned as soon as Reagan took office.

quote:

---

From Omega:
This is a logical leap that defies all reason. Why shouldn't Bush have negotiated with the hostage-takers? Former director of the CIA, soon to be VP. Remember, these people REALLY didn't like Carter, so someone not attached to that administration would be preferable. What does that have to do with a possible missile deal?

---

Why shouldn't Bush have negotiated with terrorists? How about the fact that this was in October and Bush was not even the VP-elect. He was one of many Vice-Presidential candidates. Bush's doing any negotiations would be a conflict of interest. On top of that, he wasn't sent by the Carter Administration or by Congress. What possible jurisdiction could he have? Nothing other than to promise something in return for returning the hostages if Reagan assumes power. That's the logical leap you could not see.

quote:

---

From Omega:
Or perhaps he was so EFFECTIVE a leader that he trusted his people to do their jobs, without his micromanaging everything. Ever think of that?

---

Yes, I did think about this. And if he was an effective leader, his subordinates should have had more respect for their leader than to try anything that would harm their leader.

quote:

---

From Omega:
As I understand it, the law broken was the fact that the aid given to the Contras was covert, something that had been made illegal. I don't think the missiles had anything to do with North's conviction, though I could be wrong.

---

Oliver North was head responsible for a lot of what happened in the Iran-Contra Affair. That is what he got busted on.

quote:

---

From Omega:
He commited perjury. Do you deny this?

---

Reread, Omega. I denied nothing.

quote:

---

From Omega:
If there's evidence of Reagan or Bush breaking laws, you certainly haven't presented it.

---

And was that my intent? No, it was to back what Jeff Kardde had posted earlier. I'm not trying to be this all-knowing person. I posted what I know in an effort to support Jeff, and I also posted in response to the rape of the presidency that Republicans think that Clinton is guilty of.

quote:

---

From Omega:
Reread my post. You'd look like less of an idiot.

---

quote:

---

But Reagan and Bush were NOT involved

---

Which is just plain not true.

As several members of the re-butt-lican elite on these boards are sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo fond of pointing out when it serves their world dominating purposes or anti-Clinton hard-ons, the President of the United States is responsible for what happens during his term. Heck, to get their anti-Clinton rocks off, the right has practically blamed Clinton for everything from the seasonal rains in Bangladesh to mosquitoe bites in Costa Rica.

President "I Don't Remember" Reagan IS responsible for the arm shipments as if (and I don't really doubt that his wrinkled had was involved) sign the order himself.

AND he is responsible for creating and fostering a climate in the White House where such illegal, cowardly and subversive actions are even thought of let alone done.

AND he is responsible (if he did not sign the order with his wrinkled hand...and I would not be suprised if he had done so) for alowing an environment in the White House that such illegal, cowardly and subversive actions CAN go on without his knowledge and consent.

Beware, my re-butt-lican friends, that when one wants to cast such a wide anti-Clinton net, what else might fall in. Caution is in order lest we visit the sins of all presidents in an effort to try and demonize one to sanctify the other.

Then again nuance has never been a strong point of the far right.

Most of the people on this board are guys, and probably everyone arguing about this is (I'm not going to check). So, how would you guys feel if your wife was president, and you found out she'd been surruptitiously having interns hide under the desk w/ their hands up her skirt, fingering her, while she's working? Would you just say "Oh, that's okay. It's not a crime."?

quote:

---

Clinton's activities in the Oral Office don't make him a criminal. But they still make him a jerk.

---

quote:

---

DEA -- oh, please.

---

Such a well thought out and witty response..

quote:

---

April 4 New York Times story by Jeff Gerth and Raymond Bonner:

"A federal grand jury is investigating whether two American companies illegally gave China space expertise that significantly advanced Beijing�s ballistic missile program, according to administration officials. But the officials said the criminal inquiry was dealt a serious blow two months ago when President Clinton quietly approved the export to China of similar technology by one of the companies under investigation."

Gerth and Bonner explained that Clinton had allowed the Loral Corporation to have China launch one of its satellites. Loral Chairman Bernard Schwartz, the Times observed, "was the largest personal contributor to the Democratic National Committee last year."

---

quote:

---

But the officials said the criminal inquiry was dealt a serious blow two months ago

---

Two months before April 4th was Feb. 4th. If this article is to be believed, either First of Two misled people about the date, or one must wonder what power an ex-President has to authorize such actions. Or, it was really George W. Bush.

You're right. I copied the report without including the date. My bad. It was 1998.

Which doesn't change the fact that it happened.

1. U.S. Company sells China technology which the Pentagon later calls a 'breach of security.' Technology which involves the construction and launch of ballistic missiles.

2. Company comes under investigation for illegalities.

3. Investigation aborted (not the same as acquittal) when point is made moot by Clinton signing over same technology.

4. Company Clinton signed tech over to just happens to be biggest Democratic donor, also reputed to be involved in Chinese Triad crime syndicate / front for Chinese military.

While I think Clinton was a better president than the monkey looking crotch goblin on many counts, I have to agree that the whole blow-job things was just plain damn stupid on his part.

I mean, think about it. The man was the President of the United States. Executive IN CHIEF of all the armed forces. If he says "nuke", we nuke. What does this have to do with blow jobs in the oval office? Well, think about it. The man can't be trusted to stay loyal to his own damn family, let alone his country. On top of that he lied, more than once. Is this someone I want in charge of my life? "I don't want to bomb you! Oh, wait, I take it back, I do want to bomb you.". Or "Well, I hit the button but it was the army itself who actually bombed you!". He clearly likes to dodge responsibility for his actions. A man like that has no business in the oval office.

I mean, come on. Havn't you ever had someone who was really close to you, a well trusted friend, Lie to you about something really big? After that, you start wondering if everything else that person ever said was a lie...... same goes with this.