The Public Health Service (USPHS), Coast Guard, and NOAA for that matter are "uniformed services" not "military services" - they are not within the Department of Defense - the Coast Guard can be brought over to DOD and is generally called military but legally it is not. (Might be a similar arrangement that makes SF not "military" btw). All military services are uniformed but not all uniformed services are military. Not all members of the USPHS or NOAA are part of the uniformed services - but they make up the core of those agencies.
So - we have "Army style" ranks (2nd LT, 1st LT, Capt, Major, etc.) for the Army, Marines, and Air Force and "Navy style" ranks (ENS, LTJG, LT, LCDR, etc.) for the Navy, Coast Guard, USPHS, and NOAA. All officers of all uniformed services have the same "pay grades" (0-1, 0-2, 0-3, 0-4, etc.) - so the ranks are equal.
What I meant by my earlier post is that there is an "order of precedence" for the various military departments and that precedence is (again IIRC) Army - Navy - Marines - Air Force. Although the Navy/Marines may be switched now that I think about it. That does not mean that as a Navy officer I automatically salute all Army officers - the normal rules of rank apply, I salute those superior in rank (O-4 and up), pass with no salute those of my own rank (O-3) just a "hi - how's it going" basically - and return the salutes given to me by those I outrank 0-2 and below (although junior officers, in the Navy 0-4 and below, may or may not actually salute one another in a given situation depending on situation dependent social rules that you just sort of have to "feel" out - when in doubt follow the above rules).
So - the order of precendece only applies when there is no other method of sorting something out, or placing service flags or something like that.
Sorry for the confusion - for more on all this feel free to e-mail me off board!
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Gene Roddenberry always maintained that Starfleet was not military, but a uniformed service., that like the Coast Guard, had military ranks and occasionaly, military actions O'Brien stated that he still had to go to school to enlist, as did Simon Tarses in "Drumhead" Rand probably had to go through some training to become a yeoman, and was still enlisted as of Star Trek I, as a chief petty officer by her insignia and title.. not an ensign by this point... however, there were 14 years between The Motion Picture, and "The Search for Spock" where she appeared to be a lieutenant (or lieutenant commander? I'll watch it tonight.. she might have been wearing that strange lieutenant senior grade pin like Valeris in TUC, in between Full Lieutenant and Lt.Cmdr). Some noncanon sources say she recieved a field commission for experience gained on intelligence work, but it also seems likely she could have gone to command school, (kind of like how Corporal Johnnie Rico became a Third Lieutenant without doing his full college years, by going to accelerated officer training for enlisted in Starship Troopers [the book, not the eye-candy movie]). sometime in that 14 year gap. In Star Trek IV she was wearing a crewman jumpsuit, but this scene was cut from many versions and did not have rank insignia. Some officers still wore jumpsuits for efficiency sake, ill check a source for that from the Fletcher costume designs. So being a Commander, first officer of a captital ship in 2293, eighteen years after having been a chief petty officer and 27 years after being a fresh young able yeoman maybe not that far-fetched?
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Hee hee.. i can see why the comics i read stuck with the 'she was undercover' explanation for her Starfleet Intelligence either pretending to be an officer, or more likely, pretending to be enlisted for a term.
I'll check TUC.. most every source (novel, comic) has her as the first officer years before flashback so its not an original idea from the crap show
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In STIV in the credits she's listed as "Commander Rand." Since this is the case, I have no problem accepting that the character in STIII was Rand also, as she was a Commander as well. What doesn't make sense is that she's back to Lt. JG in STVI. What was she in "Flashback"?
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I'm sure the credits are based on what the character was referred to in the script. Besides, it was the the intention of TPTB to present all of the cast regulars of TOS as Commanders in the movies. (w/ the exception of Kirk, of course.)
Maybe she was demoted sometime after TVH, and then was given a field commission by Sulu to Lt. Cmdr. after the beginning of TUC, corresponding with "Flashback."
???
[ September 08, 2001: Message edited by: The Mighty Monkey of Mim ]
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"I'm sure the credits are based on what the character was referred to in the script."
In that case, our friendly neighbourhood communications officer was called "Uhuru" in ST VI.
"Besides, it was the the intention of TPTB to present all of the cast regulars of TOS as Commanders in the movies."
Except for Scotty. And Spock. And Sulu (in STVI).
And except for ST:TMP, where several of them are Lt Commander (and Checkov is only a lieutenant, I think).
-------------------- Yes, you're despicable, and... and picable... and... and you're definitely, definitely despicable. How a person can get so despicable in one lifetime is beyond me. It isn't as though I haven't met a lot of people. Goodness knows it isn't that. It isn't just that... it isn't... it's... it's despicable.
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I know! There's this rare disease called "rankconfusionitis" that only affects second tier characters like Rand and O'Brien.
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Because no Star Trek producer has ever understood the concept of 'non-commissioned' because they cant write for characters that didnt get a four-year degree like they did maybe?
my scheme:
Yeoman (TOS) Chief PO (TMP) ...finally made ensign! yay for officer's training Lt Cmdr (TSFS) Lt Cmdr (TVH) wearing a jumpsuit because it suited her Cmdr (TUC & Flashback) Wearing the wrong pins because of a production error, even though she's listed in the credits as Commander. Because every single piece of literature thats come out associated with that appearance makes her the Excelsior's first officer.
By these rationale, Picard was demoted to Commander briefly in TNG but then repromoted between scenes by communique from Starfleet.. but we didnt mind because in the credits it still said Patrick Stewart as CAPTAIN Picard
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