posted
I am simply amazed at the snobbery on display here. Would you rather have the movie written by a non-fan, or worse, someone who HATED Trek? People are throwing the "fanboy" term (and several other unkind remarks) entirely too freely.
OK, so the newer Trek films have upped the action quotient. Well, if TNG had a big problem, it was that it was TOO talky and intellectual. Too many stories focused around staff conferences and sitting at panels poking Okudagrams.
DS9 went a LONG way towards correcting that, which was what made it a much better show in the long run. It brought back a touch of TOS in that Sisko and Co. had no problems grabbing phaser rifles and setting out to kick bad guy butt when needed, while at the same time keeping in mind the more progressive ideals of Trek. Look at "Way of the Warrior" for a good example of what I mean.
I've enjoyed all the TNG Trek films. Some I like more than others, but none have been as bad as some here would have everyone believe.
As for Nemesis, I've read the script that's been on line, and I've seen the trailer. I have one or two problems with it, but so far I think I'll enjoy this Trek film too.
Registered: Mar 2002
| IP: Logged
posted
As for my earlier remarks, they were not aimed at Trek films, but movies in general.
Also I don't intend to critisize Nemesis until I have seen it.
But what's wrong with TNG being "talky and intellectual"? That's one aspect why so many people think that TNG is the best Trek series.
DS9 has a totally different premise to start with. And yes, it has also done very well in what it tried to portray. That's why I find it equally entertaining as TNG - or TOS for that matter.
I can't say anything about Enterprise as we won't get to see that here in Germany until at least autumn.
And as for VOY or TAS, well, I won't comment on those. Whoever chooses to like these series has every right to do so. It's just that I am not one of these people.
-------------------- Lister: Don't give me the "Star Trek" crap! It's too early in the morning. - Red Dwarf "The Last Day"
Registered: Nov 1999
| IP: Logged
posted
I'm not blanket-bashing talk and intellect. But there's such a thing as too much. Kirk would ask his officers for opinions when he needed them, but made most of his decisions "on the fly" and by himself. Sometimes it seemed that Picard couldn't take a leak w/o calling a staff conference on the subject.
Intellectuality has always been a part of Trek, and an important one, but TNG just took it too far, especially in the early seasons. Too many times Picard would pursue his "diplomacy" while the bad guys ran amok. As Scotty once said, sometimes "the best diplomat I know is a fully armed phaser bank". There are just some threats that are self-evident, and should not be overly analyzed.
Registered: Mar 2002
| IP: Logged
posted
That's a good point, Reverend, but it's the exception that proves the rule, as it were...
A good example of too much negotiating would be the Cardassians in TNG. They broke their treaty with the Federation in "The Wounded" and all the Federation did was say "We'll be watching". From that point on, all the Federation did with the Cardassians was sit and watch and hold diplomatic conferences while the situation in and around the DMZ went to hell in a handbasket. Something Cmdr. Eddington said much later during DS9 shows the attitude: "Right now, you're grooming the Cardassians to take their 'rightful place' in the Federation."
That is SOOO true. The 24th century Federation in TNG was WAY too willing to "turn the other cheek", and that attitude led to the Dominion War.
Registered: Mar 2002
| IP: Logged
posted
Surely the Founders being insane old xenophobes with a lust for totalitarianism played some small part in the matter?
Registered: Mar 1999
| IP: Logged
posted
Besides which, what exactly are you trying to say? You start by making a sort of meta-argument. That TNG episodes were bad because they addressed situations in "talky" ways. But then you start talking about things within the show itself. Surely you aren't claiming that Star Trek can only be good to watch when good things happen in it? Are episodes where characters make mistakes rendered dull or boring? Of course not.
It seems to me, and I think there are some who agree, that the Dominion War made for good TV. So doesn't that mean that those writers responsible for setting it up were doing good things? I'm having a hard time getting a handle on just what sort of television you wish you were watching.
Registered: Mar 1999
| IP: Logged
posted
I'd hate to live in a world where diplomacy wasn't given every possible chance before war.
I'd hate to watch television like that too.
Ultima ratio regum should always come after all other means are exhausted. Not before.
The Borg don't negotiate. That's what's so scary about them. The Federation taking appropriate measures to defend themselves against such an enemy is not only an interesting plot device, but it's also highly logical. I would have been disappointed with TNG if Starfleet didn't at least have something in the works to defend themselves...They were outgunned and technologically inferior by a large degree, and the enemy could be counted on to come and kick some ass with no preamble.
The Cardassians were different, though...You might well say that though they were a developing "superpower" the overall dynamic still favored the Federation heavily--at least from all appearances. In such a position, it would have gone against deep-seated Federation philosophy to up and invade Cardassia, even after several infractions.
In my mind, the whole scenario played out pretty much the way it should have. In hindsight, the Cardassians should have been stopped sooner, but then again, the Federation had never been in a conflict of that magnitude. They didn't know what was coming... (and correct me if I'm wrong, but the wars with the Klingons and the Romulans were more akin to border skirmishes than actual invasion schemes...)
Similar things have happened here on good 'ol Terra several times, you know.
posted
Well basically, the conditions of that treaty which Germany had been forced to accept ultimately led to WW2. (Now that's what I call simplifying events.)
But why that would be similar to the events leading up to the Dominion war, I don't see that connection either.
-------------------- Lister: Don't give me the "Star Trek" crap! It's too early in the morning. - Red Dwarf "The Last Day"
Registered: Nov 1999
| IP: Logged
capped
I WAS IN THE FUTURE, IT WAS TOO LATE TO RSVP
Member # 709
posted
i myself was pondering a parallel where the Cardassian War would be parallel to World War I.. besically the Federation got involved too late, and laid down a lot of shit they shouldnt have.. the 2367 Treaty wasa failed attempt at appeasement and then the Breen and Dominion kinda joined up with the Cardies to become the Axis for the Dominion War, the second Cardassian/Federation conflict. I only hope that they dont follow suit and start a long cold war era.. (did the Romulans and the Federation divide Cardassia Prime in half????...)
Registered: Sep 2001
| IP: Logged
![[Wink]](wink.gif)
Printer-friendly view of this topic
