quote:Originally posted by Spike: Fletcher's scheme for enlisted men is: Master Chief Petty Officer Senior Chief Petty Officer Chief Petty Officer Petty Officer 1st class Petty Officer 2nd class Able Seaman
Ensign 1st class was created by DC and MCPO 2nd class by Doug Drexler.
Thanks, I misread the chart then. I still don't care for the able seaman bit, as I don't like mixing systems, but the rest isn't so far out there then.
-------------------- Darkwing If you don't drink the kool-aid, you're a *baaad* person - Rev Jim Jones It is useless for sheep to pass resolutions in favor of vegetarianism while wolves remain of a different opinion - William Ralph Inge Almond kool-aid, anyone? - DW [email protected]
Registered: May 2002
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quote:Originally posted by Darkwing: Mixing systems gets messy and confusing.
Yet again I am forced to ask: Why? When Starfleet was created they presumably started over from scratch. They would have asked themselves what was the best way to do a certain thing, not said "One of the countries on Earth uses this system, so we must use it or else". If the person drawing up rank charts thought that the British enlisted system was better, he would have used it.
And frankly, arguments to do with how easy it is for viewers to work out the ranks are irrelevant. I, at least, am trying to analyse Trek as a reality, not a TV show. That is why things like the Melbourne are problems to me. I can't say "they made a mistake". I have to think of a reason for it that fits into the Trek reality.
Registered: Jan 2003
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quote:Originally posted by Darkwing: Mixing systems gets messy and confusing.
Yet again I am forced to ask: Why? When Starfleet was created they presumably started over from scratch. They would have asked themselves what was the best way to do a certain thing, not said "One of the countries on Earth uses this system, so we must use it or else". If the person drawing up rank charts thought that the British enlisted system was better, he would have used it.
And frankly, arguments to do with how easy it is for viewers to work out the ranks are irrelevant. I, at least, am trying to analyse Trek as a reality, not a TV show. That is why things like the Melbourne are problems to me. I can't say "they made a mistake". I have to think of a reason for it that fits into the Trek reality.
It's not a reality, and you'll save yourself a lot of trouble if you ask about the real reason before looking for the story reason. I only look for a story reason if the real reason isn't good enough. After all, Paramount still refuses to give a story reason for the change in the Klingons and Romulans. The real reason was more money for makeup, and theft of Romulan background when it was necessary to reconstruct Klingons as something other than 1984/USSR/Mongol empire. That doesn't satisfy me, but Paramount will never explain it other than to claim it was always that way; they just didn't have the budget to show it before.
-------------------- Darkwing If you don't drink the kool-aid, you're a *baaad* person - Rev Jim Jones It is useless for sheep to pass resolutions in favor of vegetarianism while wolves remain of a different opinion - William Ralph Inge Almond kool-aid, anyone? - DW [email protected]
Registered: May 2002
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posted
If I wanted to save myself a lot of trouble, would I really bother posting at all? I could be a normal fan, who is content to take it all as it comes, and just think "oooh a pretty ship" whenever the Prometheus flies by, but I don't want to. I want to analyse Trek. I want the Trek universe to be believable to me. I don't want to think "oh well the Melbourne appears as 2 different classes, but i don't care", I want to come up with a reason for it. If you don't want to do that, fine, but don't blame me for wanting to.
Registered: Jan 2003
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posted
It seems to me that the Earth Starfleet grew out of the United Nations Space Navy (or Space Force, or Spacey, or whatever the smeg). What rank scheme does the UN employ (being as I don't feel like going to their web site right now to hunt down the answer).?
--Jonah
-------------------- "That's what I like about these high school girls, I keep getting older, they stay the same age."
--David "Woody" Wooderson, Dazed and Confused
Registered: Feb 2001
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posted
Well, I'd say we now have an RL example for a rank mix:
Officer ranks follow the USN scheme with the exception of Commodore. Moreover, they use different Seaman ranks.
-------------------- "Never give up. And never, under any circumstances, no matter what - never face the facts." - Ruth Gordon
Registered: Mar 2000
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posted
Is there any chance that the UESPA has anything to so with possibly forming from the UN as their space agency? I know that UESPA was a fubar from TOS, and that UESPA was carried on to Friendship One...or is this something best be left avoided?
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Registered: Jan 2003
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Shik
Starship database: completed; History of Starfleet: done; website: probably never
Member # 343
posted
Uhhh, you DO know that that "UN Rank Structure" is utter bullshit made up for Macross, right?
The present-day United Nations has no military or paramilitary forces assigned to it or comprising any form of standing unit. A pity, though...because it should.
-------------------- "The French have a saying: 'mise en place'—keep everything in its fucking place!"
Registered: Jun 2000
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quote:Originally posted by Futurama Guy: Is there any chance that the UESPA has anything to so with possibly forming from the UN as their space agency? I know that UESPA was a fubar from TOS, and that UESPA was carried on to Friendship One...or is this something best be left avoided?
Probably that last one.
Registered: Jun 2001
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posted
Without scanning through this post or the other post Im not sure which one this was brought up in, but I just saw "Someone to Watch Over Me" and I am fairly sure that Chakotay has actual Lt. Commander pips on his dress uniform.
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Registered: Jan 2003
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posted
Does anyone have the Federation Reference Series? I've heard there's yet another rank scheme in it.
-------------------- "Never give up. And never, under any circumstances, no matter what - never face the facts." - Ruth Gordon
Registered: Mar 2000
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posted
Unfortunately, I've got no way to scan it, but this is basically what it has:
Fleet Admiral - Six-pointed star with hexagonal core.
Admiral - Essentially the admiral pin from the movies.
Vice Admiral - No pin.
Rear Admiral - Vertical ellipse with points at 90 degree locations. One thick band over one thin band in the center.
Commodore - Toughest one to describe. Start with the captain's pin and eliminate the straight vertical lines on either side. Elongate the lower angled sides and connect them directly to their counterparts on top. One thick band in the center.
Captain - Essentially the correct movie pin.
Commander - Essentially the correct movie pin.
Lt. Commander - Hollow, downward-pointing triangle with one horizontal band in center.
Lieutenant - Essentially the correct movie pin.
Lt. J.G. - No pin.
Ensign - Bottom half of lieutenant pin.
The list has no enlisted rank insignia. The details of each insignia are nowhere near as intricate as the modern examples. Given the publication date (1985), it's not surprising.
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Registered: Aug 2001
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